Dec. 23, 2025

Transformational Leadership in Construction: Leading Change Beyond Transactional Practices

Transformational Leadership in Construction: Leading Change Beyond Transactional Practices
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Construction LeadershipMindset ShiftLeadership CoachingSelf-ImprovementTransformational LeadershipLeadership Development Programs

Summary 

In this episode Ryan Ware welcomes Andrea Janzen, founder of Ambition Theory leadership development for construction, to explore transformational leadership & its vital role in leading change in construction & change management for construction businesses. She shares her journey from corporate marketing to becoming a leader in construction coaching techniques, emphasizing how transformational leadership drives construction innovation & fosters inclusive, human-centered change environments in the construction industry. Discover how moving beyond transactional leadership can effectively address pressing construction industry challenges such as labor shortages & mental health, while empowering teams through construction leadership development. Learn practical insights & tools for change management and how adopting a human-centered approach can revolutionize leadership practices in this traditionally transactional field.

Takeaways:

  • Transformational leadership focuses on guiding and inspiring teams rather than dictating tasks.
  • The construction industry is evolving, with a growing emphasis on transformational leadership.
  • Women in construction face unique challenges, but transformational leadership can create more inclusive environments.
  • The shift from transactional to transformational leadership requires a change in mindset and openness to new ideas.

Chapters 

3:58 Andrea's Journey and Ambition Theory

15:42 Transactional vs. Transformational Leadership

21:22 Transformational Leadership in Practice

26:22 Future of Leadership and Industry

56:03 Conclusion and Call to Action

Guest 

Andrea, Ambition Theory Founder and CEO is a Certified Executive Coach with an MBA, the host of the Ambition Theory Podcast, a Forbes contributor and a top-rated speaker. She is passionate about coaching women in construction to develop themselves, set leadership goals and get results. Since 2018, Andrea has coached and trained over 1,000 construction professionals. Before becoming a coach, Andrea was a marketing leader that worked on some of the world's
best-known brands.

https://ambitiontheory.com/

Podcast:
https://ambitiontheory.com/the-ambition-theory-podcast/

Leadership Academy
https://nawic.org/women-leading-in-construction-leadership-training-in-construction

Send us your thoughts, ideas, questions

Connective Consulting Group
Helping construction leaders simplify change, strengthen trust, and move forward with clarity.

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WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.919
The difference is transactional is like that top-down.

00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:07.040
The leader knows everything and actually shares it downward with the team, the industry today.

00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:09.039
That's the dominant leadership style.

00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:11.359
Men are naturally more transactional.

00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:13.439
There's just more men in the industry today.

00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:15.919
So there's just more of that leadership.

00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:18.879
That's what's taught, what's reinforced, what's rewarded.

00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:20.800
The other side is transformational leadership.

00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:31.359
So instead of knowing all the answers, the leader's job is to guide, inspire, pull out the answers from the team, recognizing that sometimes people on your team know more than you do, and that's okay.

00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:40.799
Actually, have exponentially more resources available because you're leveraging the experience of all of those people versus you having to have all the answers.

00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:33.280
Our own personal lives, to our business, our team.

00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.400
And uh it's going to be a great conversation.

00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:49.760
Um, I've had an opportunity to know this guest for a few years and get a chance to allow some of my former employees to work along with her, and I've had a chance to build my relationship with her.

00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:54.239
So the guest today is Andrea Jansen of Ambition Theory.

00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:55.760
Andrea, how are you?

00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:57.040
Oh, I'm amazing.

00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:58.640
Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.959
Well, you're always such a positive attitude, and I love that.

00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:04.799
You're gonna bring a lot of energy.

00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:10.319
So um, before we dive into the show, I'd love for you to just tell a little bit about yourself.

00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:12.879
Oh, that's a big question.

00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.159
So I am the founder of Ambition Theory.

00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.919
I'm also a mom, a wife, and Ambition Theory is it's my business.

00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:33.680
It started out as a leadership coaching business and has evolved into what it is today, which is a leadership development company that focuses on the construction industry, the built environment, and the engineering types of industries.

00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:41.439
And our main area of expertise is teaching people in a transactional environment transformational leadership skills.

00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:59.199
So teaching people how to inspire others instead of using that kind of top-down approach to motivate people, it's helping people invite their team in to contribute, rise to the challenge, show up with that positive energy, that contribution energy because we know it is contagious.

00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:05.360
So we basically teach people in these very technical transactional environments how to do that.

00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:13.120
And it started with kind of us becoming the experts in how to advance women in these industries.

00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:19.759
Well, that is such an important thing for the industry to really focus on.

00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:34.159
First off, so glad that you're, you know, willing to be a part of the podcast, but to kind of share more with some audience members who maybe have never, or listeners who have never heard of your uh business and sort of this ambition that you've had.

00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:45.520
So my first question would really be around something must have triggered in your past, like, hey, there is something deeper here, and I'm seeing it.

00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.319
It it might be repetitive that you've noticed it.

00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:57.840
So what was it that you noticed and you said, hey, this is a problem worth solving and addressing, and I want to give my energy to it.

00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:01.759
Okay, that is so we're going back to 2017 for this one.

00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:04.080
It was a very pivotal moment in time.

00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:09.360
And so at the time I was living in Canada, and there's this women's magazine called Chatelaine.

00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:14.479
So it's like a, you know, it has recipes, tips to organize your house, like fashion tips.

00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:18.720
It's not like a high thought leadership magazine.

00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:21.120
Um, and you know how sometimes like this is a print magazine.

00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.079
So this is back in the day when print was like still popular.

00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:35.120
Um, but they what they one of their marketing strategies was to like buy a list and send people like free copies of the magazines, I guess with the hopes that they'll like it, become a subscriber.

00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.040
So I get one of these in the mail.

00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:39.199
I had three young children at the time.

00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.240
The youngest was probably like three, four months old.

00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.040
I had kind of started this coaching business.

00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:46.800
It was really not going well.

00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:48.000
I was overwhelmed.

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:52.720
I had my kids, I get this magazine, I bring it to the park, like they're playing in the park.

00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:54.639
I'm like opening it up to read.

00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:58.800
And they had done this study in Canada around women.

00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.079
They'd asked women about what their ambition was at work.

00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:10.399
And there was a stat in there that said two-thirds of women would not take their boss's job, even if it was offered to them.

00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:21.279
And yeah, so this was around the time when people started talking about like pay equity at work, like women in the workplace, the lean-in women in the workplace because like was like coming out.

00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:22.560
People were talking about this.

00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:32.160
And I was like, oh my goodness, how are we supposed to do to do something about this if two-thirds of women don't want to take a leadership role?

00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.439
Even if it's offered to them.

00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.399
I was like, wow, this is this is a problem.

00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.240
And that kind of sparked me.

00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:39.600
I love, I'm curious, right?

00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.920
I'm like, what is going on here?

00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:43.680
I'm motivated by that stat.

00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.759
I'm literally, it's looking at the mirror, right?

00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.399
I was a super motivated person.

00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:55.519
And I always believe kind of what was taught to me growing up is like if you work hard, you can have whatever you want.

00:05:55.519 --> 00:06:00.079
You could rise to any leadership role level in any industry.

00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:01.600
That's what I was taught.

00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:08.879
And kind of like the older I got, the real the realization when I looked around, I'm like, that is actually that's not the case for me.

00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:12.240
And that doesn't seem to be the case for everybody else.

00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.240
And then seeing that research was like, okay, what am I gonna do?

00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:17.680
So I got more curious.

00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:19.120
So I did more research.

00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.920
And what I kind of discovered was it wasn't that women didn't want to lead.

00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:30.480
It was like the picture of leadership at the time, which was 2017, wasn't appealing to them.

00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.879
It wasn't that women weren't ambitious.

00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:40.399
It was that the thing, the big shiny object, the thing that you could strive for wasn't in alignment with what they wanted.

00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:44.879
And so that is really where this concept of ambition theory came from.

00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.319
Um, because I also am like, what does the word ambition even mean?

00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:48.560
Right.

00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:57.519
So I looked it up in the dictionary, and it's the desire to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:02.879
And so the picture of leadership, that something wasn't appealing to women.

00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:04.480
So the hard work wasn't worth it.

00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.399
So you're like, okay, I don't want to take that job.

00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.360
I don't want to work more hours, I don't want more stress.

00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:26.000
And so that's really the foundation of the work that we do at Ambition Theory is really figuring out what drives you, what's important to you, what is a worthy goal that you want to strive for that's gonna get you excited, energized, because achieving anything is gonna be hard, right?

00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:30.079
There's gonna be setbacks, roadblocks, you're gonna have to get through it.

00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:36.879
And if you don't have that bigger vision that's aligned to like what you care about as a person, you're not gonna make it.

00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.519
And so that is kind of that was the moment where it all kind of started.

00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:48.319
I I mean, the stat is fascinating at two-thirds alone, just standing alone, right?

00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:55.920
Like two-thirds of women don't want that leadership piece, but it's that two-thirds, it's not appealing.

00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:08.560
So it's high energy for low, you know, outcome for them, low reward from what they were seeing it as, like that isn't that isn't driving me.

00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:10.639
That isn't in my ambition, as you said.

00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:17.920
So that's incredible that two-thirds would I mean 2017 may feel like a century ago.

00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:20.639
It's it's not even 10 years.

00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:45.039
So with that, you know, I'm thinking like, hey, you're you're sitting there, you're a coach, like you said, you've focused on the mindset, you've gone through the training and this this thing sparks of like we have an an entire half of our population, not you know, North America, that is not feeling energized about their opportunity.

00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:58.559
So I since we really focus on on the construction industry, and you know, for for you as well as myself, and I take that as architecture all the way through engineers and and contractors.

00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:12.480
But like what was it where you were going, yeah, I'm gonna dive into construction because it's such one, it's a different type of industry, and we we know it.

00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:22.080
I mean, not nobody's really great at change, but here's this industry over here that's been building, you know, the same way for hundreds of years.

00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:38.720
As you said before, it's very transactional, and I'm sure you'll get into this, but like the numbers of women that actually are in the construction side, now A and E is different, but construction itself is such a low percentage.

00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:42.000
So, what drove you and said construction?

00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.000
That's that's the focus.

00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:48.320
That's such a great question because I did not grow up dreaming about this industry.

00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:54.399
Like, like most women that work in this industry, I kind of like to think the industry chose me.

00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:58.720
I did not choose them because I wasn't really exposed to it as a possibility.

00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.840
So I used to work in corporate marketing for consumer products before.

00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.720
So nothing to do with any of this.

00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:10.879
And so I started my journey, and people always told me, like, I so I created this workshop.

00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:12.639
It was called What Drives Your Ambition.

00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:15.200
And at the time, the company wasn't even called Ambition Theory.

00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:17.039
It was just Andrea Jansen coaching.

00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:22.320
Um, and someone had told me in like a small business networking group, oh, you should speak.

00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.480
You should speak at conferences to get the word off the ground about your business.

00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:33.039
So I think I had done one free workshop at the local chamber of commerce in my city.

00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:43.039
And my husband actually works in construction, and his company was sending women to the groundbreaking women in construction conference that Engineering News Record puts on every year.

00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.279
And so he knew I had this women's workshop.

00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:46.639
I was trying to get it off the ground.

00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:48.320
So he sends me this email.

00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.639
He's like, Oh, look how amazing my company is.

00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.320
They're supporting women, they're sending them to this conference.

00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.759
Here you go, Andrea.

00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:57.919
And so I was, I was again curious.

00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:00.000
I'm like, what is this conference?

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.000
Like, what are they talking about?

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.440
Who are the speakers?

00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:05.759
I'm like, this is I'm just curious to learn.

00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:14.320
So I go to the website, I look at the speakers, and I see on one of the afternoons there was a TBD slot in the schedule.

00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:20.960
And I called the conference and I asked them if they wanted a women's leadership speaker.

00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.320
And they said yes.

00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.399
And and so I went to the conference, and this was like I was on the East Coast.

00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:30.080
I had to fly, it was in San Francisco, I had to fly all the way across.

00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:31.679
It was in Canada at the time.

00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.399
So it was a long journey for me to get there.

00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:36.320
I had to pay for myself to be there.

00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.879
And they gave me this little tiny breakout room.

00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.120
And actually, that was my introduction to construction.

00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:46.080
I actually didn't really know anything before I presented at this conference.

00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.519
And there was this moment where I got there early.

00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:50.480
I was so nervous.

00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.639
Like I printed off worksheets for everybody.

00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:57.039
They told me, you know, 50 people will be there and 50 worksheets.

00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.279
I it was such, I was so prepared.

00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.600
And I got there and the room's already full.

00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.279
I was there 15 minutes early.

00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.159
And I was like, oh, these must be from the presentation before me.

00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:07.200
They're gonna leave.

00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.759
Then I'll, you know, put my hands on the chair.

00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:12.480
My people will come, the flow will go.

00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.000
And nobody left.

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:20.080
And then more people just kept coming to the point where like they were sitting on the floor, they were standing in the hall.

00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:24.080
Then the organizers like just propped the door open and put chairs in the hallway.

00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:29.440
And even before the presentation started, I was like, I think I'm on to something here.

00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.360
And so I did the presentation.

00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:32.879
I had to throw out the handouts.

00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:33.679
We didn't do the handouts.

00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:34.720
There wasn't enough.

00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:37.200
Um, there wasn't even anywhere for people to write.

00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:43.120
Um, threw out the handouts, did the presentation, and really it went super well, engaged with the audience.

00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.519
They, it really landed with them this concept of like figuring out what drives you.

00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:49.360
And I got clients from it.

00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:58.240
So some of them signed up for my program, but I was still working with, you know, healthcare, banking, all these industries at the beginning, just trying to get it off the ground.

00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:06.320
And then I was just looking at like who are the clients, and about 60% of them were from the construction industry.

00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:10.559
And so I was taking again a small business marketing course, and they gave us a challenge.

00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:18.399
They're like, look at your clients, pick one segment, focus on that segment for 90 days and see what happens.

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.720
So that was how it started.

00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.600
How it started.

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:22.000
Yeah.

00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.960
So finding that niche from a business, right?

00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.039
It's a go-to-market strategy.

00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:33.279
The niche is really this construction because 60%, again, we're back into that percentage.

00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:48.639
That's a that's a high number, again, of people who are like, hey, I see an opportunity for me to work with a coach, which in the construction industry it's not looked at very highly.

00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:49.919
Like, I don't need help.

00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:57.840
We talk about mentorship, and I know we can get into this, but like on different terminology, but like coaching is a different, it's a different thing.

00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.000
Like in the construction industry, a lot of men will be like, I don't need help.

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.159
I know how to deal with this, I know how to handle it.

00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:08.480
And we, you know, I had Angelo um Suntrees on here, and we talked about that.

00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:12.240
It was supposed to be rough and tough and extraction.

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:21.840
Well, asking for, you know, help from a coach, a partner from a coach, and working with a coach is not a sign of weakness.

00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:23.200
It's actually strength.

00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:33.120
And to see 60% of your the group you're you're talking about uh coming to you are like, hey, I know I can do more.

00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.639
And this goes back to ambition.

00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:43.120
I'm driven by it, they're personally driven by it, and you're for you, it's I'm coaching the person, I'm coaching the human, right?

00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:44.080
To find that.

00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:58.000
So it's helpful to kind of understand because like you said, you didn't you didn't have the ambition to go towards an industry, it was to go towards solving a a larger problem that the industry had.

00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:23.120
So there must be, you know, since we're talking about mindset and an industry that again is struggling with change, there must be some some obstacles and barriers that you've seen or things that are brought up routinely where someone's looking for that, you know, support and partnership that someone else hasn't seen.

00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:28.320
Someone else, they're not getting the support, they're not getting the buy-in to do this.

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:33.840
Yeah, what so what are those obstacles and barriers that are, you know, you just see on a on a daily basis?

00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.000
So I'll go back to something you said, right?

00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.559
In the construction industry, we're like, we know everything, right?

00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.759
Like I've been here for 20 years, like I don't need help.

00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.879
And I think the leadership model that we teach is like transactional versus transformational leadership.

00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.759
And so the difference is transactional is like that top down, right?

00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:53.759
The leader knows everything and actually shares it downward with the team.

00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:59.919
And it's really like they tell the team what to do based on their experience, their knowledge, they're seen as the expert.

00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:04.879
So that is, if you look at the industry today, that's the dominant leadership style.

00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:10.000
And what's interesting, research shows men are naturally more transactional.

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.639
So there's there's just more men in the industry today.

00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.759
So there's just more of that style of leadership.

00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:20.639
That is what taught, that's what's taught, that's what's reinforced, that's what's rewarded, right?

00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:30.240
So the people that get promoted into those leadership roles are the ones with lots of experience, the degree, um, like that the ability to tell people what to do, right?

00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:35.039
Like those are the skills that are rewarded, and those are the people that are usually promoted into leadership roles.

00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.240
So on the other side of the spectrum is transformational leadership.

00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:50.080
So instead of knowing all the answers, the leader's job is to guide, inspire, and actually pull out the answers from the team, recognizing that actually sometimes people on your team know more than you do, and that's okay.

00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:54.960
That's actually wonderful because you can actually activate that knowledge.

00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:06.000
And what happens is you actually have exponentially more resources available to you because you're leveraging the experience of all of those people versus you having to have all the answers.

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.759
So that's the transformational approach.

00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.880
Women, research shows women are naturally more transformational.

00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:14.160
Doesn't mean men can't be transformational, women can't be transitional.

00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.680
We teach it as a spectrum, right?

00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:17.839
And actually the industry, you need both, right?

00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:22.799
Sometimes you need to tell someone this needs to be done today, and that's it.

00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.519
Other times it's about that collaboration, that inspiring, that sharing the vision.

00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:34.720
So I think the biggest barrier is that the standard today is transactional.

00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:40.640
And the barrier to like actually opening up that potential is that I have to have all the answers.

00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:41.759
I do have all the answers.

00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:43.359
That's how I got here.

00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:50.799
And saying I actually want some help in my growth, it it's it's hard to come there.

00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:56.799
And it's not this kind of like acceptable thing because people haven't seen the model.

00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:58.319
People haven't been exposed to it.

00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:02.000
And it's not that I I honestly don't think people really do this on purpose.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.920
It's like you don't know what you don't know, right?

00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.319
Like you don't know these opportunities exist.

00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.279
You don't know this could be a different way.

00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.920
You don't know there's another way that you could lead if you've never been exposed to it.

00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:17.200
I think that's the biggest barrier is the exposure.

00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.079
Yeah.

00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:26.480
You know, when I think about the industry, in a lot of ways, people will grow through the trades and then get into the office.

00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:34.640
Or, you know, when you when you look at it from I've been in the trades and my whole life has been about output.

00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.000
How much output am I getting out of myself?

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:56.799
I'm I'm, you know, putting metal studs up, drywall, whatever it is, they take that and bring it internally because they're now monitoring that, because their whole life is about this transaction of procurement of materials to the output that's happening and how quickly they go into that schedule.

00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:01.759
Doesn't mean it needs to transfer to that leadership piece, as you're saying.

00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:13.519
And I can see another part of construction that's very difficult is most companies that's kind of starting construction don't make it five years.

00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:22.480
And the in in you know the states, it's and I know you're from Canada, which you know, we could talk about the World Series.

00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:23.920
I was hoping I was pulling for your hand.

00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.160
I do I have lived in the US for the last like almost four years.

00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.359
So I do understand the market here.

00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:38.960
Wanted to see Toronto, but backing up, the the transactional piece is how do we make money?

00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:46.720
How do we, you know, they have cash flow challenges, they have all these challenges, whether they're GCs or uh subtrades.

00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:53.599
So even when they look at their business, they lead transactionally, even though the business is transaction.

00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.759
And I'm wondering, it's like getting their mindset around leaders.

00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:11.440
From a transformational piece actually strengthens that transactional piece where the output without burnout, right?

00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:17.359
Output doesn't have to equal burnout by anybody, can increase by a transformational leader.

00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:26.559
So, like you said, it's that that barrier, and I'm I just wanted to kind of frame it in this way of like, I think our and men are probably far more transactional.

00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:54.559
The the inspiring piece, the willingness to say, hey, I don't know it, and I'm okay being wrong in this idea of mistakes in an industry that's very risk adverse and lawsuit after lawsuit or cash flow problems and all of those, that the transformational sort of becomes this huge opportunity to address a lot of those things.

00:20:54.559 --> 00:21:05.039
Is that something that you've seen success when people break down those barriers and are willing to be that and take on the transformational that now their business is actually improving?

00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:06.559
Everything you just said.

00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:13.200
And what's interesting, I think a lot of times people, when I explain transformational leadership, they're like, oh, Andrea, it just sounds like sunshines and rainbows.

00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.079
Like, but like we are building something.

00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.680
There is deadlines, like you said, there's cash flow, there's all of these things.

00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.720
It's not like throw out the transactional, right?

00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:28.799
It's almost like I look at it like, could we sprinkle some transformational leadership into those procedures?

00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:29.119
Right.

00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:30.480
It's not that the procedures are bad.

00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.160
You actually do need the procedures.

00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:37.759
But when I think what happens is people lean on the procedure as a leadership tool.

00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.799
So, example like overtime.

00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.480
I'll give you an example of overtime, right?

00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.720
Okay, we're behind, we need overtime.

00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:50.160
Okay, the transactional approach is we're behind mandatory overtime this weekend.

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.039
Everybody, here's the hours, here we go, right?

00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.680
And then what happens on Saturday?

00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:03.680
Is everyone pumped, ready to go, giving it their all like maybe, maybe not, right?

00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.200
Whereas the other the transformational piece is like, yeah, that's a real thing.

00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.160
We got to get this done.

00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.359
There is a deadline.

00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.359
We got we got to work over the weekend.

00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.720
Okay, hey, inviting people in, what are you building?

00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:15.920
What's the big picture?

00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:23.279
What's the long-term opportunity with the owner or the general contractor or whoever your client is in this situation?

00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:30.559
Inviting people into that, helping them see that bigger picture, helping them feel like they're contributing to something bigger than themselves.

00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:37.599
And if you know what drives your people, if you know what excites them, sprinkle that into it as well.

00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:38.480
Like let them know.

00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:44.880
Like give them a task that's gonna inspire them, that's gonna motivate them, that's gonna make them feel like it's aligned with what they care about.

00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:49.920
And then instead of people begrudgingly showing up on Saturday, they're rising to the challenge.

00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.200
Let's get it done.

00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.680
They're probably getting it done in less hours.

00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:57.039
So that's an example of how you can fix that.

00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.759
The other one is a change order, right?

00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.680
A change order is a procedure.

00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.759
And a lot of times what I've seen, the default is okay, there's a change.

00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:08.640
We fill out the form and we email the form.

00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:17.279
And like sometimes you don't hear back, or sometimes there's just like 20 emails back and forth of like, you did the, no, you're wrong, I'm wrong.

00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:24.079
Playing that blame game, um, where we have seen a lot of success is like we're not throwing out the train change order.

00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:25.200
It's not a bad procedure.

00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.599
It's a great procedure, but it's not a leadership or a tool to influence.

00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:34.400
So part of that is like, hey, can I give you a call or ask a question?

00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:39.200
Or even if you if you're some people are not comfortable making phone calls, that is a real thing.

00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:39.680
Right.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.480
Send anyone with a question, hey, we've got a challenge.

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.519
Here's the challenge.

00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.559
How can we work together to fix this?

00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:57.359
So inviting them into the challenge, hashing it out together, either on the phone or like on a Teams call, a Zoom call in person, however you want to communicate that.

00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:06.960
And then once you've made that agreement, you fill out the change order and that has saved, can save days, weeks, um, lots of money, lots of emotion.

00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:12.160
And so part of it is like recognizing the procedure and being like, okay, that's the procedure.

00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.079
That's not a tool to influence.

00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:25.440
And recognizing that transformational leadership is a there's tools that you can use to influence, work with people, collaborate towards that common solution, and then you end up at the end of the day saving money.

00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:25.920
Right.

00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:36.400
I I mean it's so confrontational as an industry, but what you just described is like starting to bring the human piece back into it.

00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:42.880
I as you're describing, I could only think of how cold sometimes the medical industry can be.

00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:50.319
And doctors, and it's like, yes, there are tasks that have to be done every day in a business or in a procedure in healthcare.

00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:54.319
For us as humans, like we need something more.

00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:01.839
Like, there has to be something more there in backing up to your area of like, why are we even in this industry?

00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:05.680
Like, what is the purpose that we're trying to achieve?

00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:18.160
And I know I've had this conversation with with others in the industry, is like there we have huge issues in the construction industry, but you know, all around architects, engineers, contractors.

00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:30.640
The world depends on us to build infrastructure that might be schools, might be bridges, might be things underground that no one sees, but depends on every day.

00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.960
That's purposeful.

00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.839
Like the world depends on us.

00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:45.359
And that may feel transactional, but coming back towards this go-to, you know, but the problem that you're aiming to solve.

00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:54.720
Like, we know we have a labor force in the future that is smaller than today.

00:25:54.720 --> 00:26:03.279
And you've talked about getting women into construction and having them feel more supported and transformational leaders.

00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.279
Like, people are walking away from this industry every single day.

00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:08.480
We're not coming into it.

00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.839
It's not even appealing or not even an option that they want to take on.

00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:21.759
So beyond that, like what makes this like even more critical of a problem to really be focused on and solving for the industry as a whole?

00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:31.920
So that's kind of like, you know, when you do something you like when we're deep in this industry, so we've been deep in this industry since probably like 2020, like learning everything we can about construction.

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:37.440
And really, like through the lens that I've learned it is through like getting people promoted.

00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.160
So that's how that's the lens where I see the world.

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:47.680
So we have worked with all types architects, engineers, tradeswomen, um, project managers, HR people.

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:53.359
I kind of we have worked with like the whole everybody, any type of person that works with in this industry over the years.

00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.640
So that's the lens that I know that I see the industry.

00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.720
We've also done a lot of research.

00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:08.160
What brings us to where we are today is this interesting moment where earlier this year, I had this moment of like, what are we really doing?

00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:10.880
Like, like, why does ambition theory exist?

00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:12.640
And what are we trying to achieve?

00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.079
And really, like as a leadership development company, what are we teaching people?

00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.920
And it really started being about advancing women.

00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:29.359
But this year, it kind of brought to the surface that this concept of transformational leadership, it's it's actually not about women at all.

00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:36.000
It's about leadership and a different leadership model that can actually help the industry solve all of the problems.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.720
Like, like you talked about, there's labor shortage, mental health, like workforce, people are retiring.

00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:41.759
There's all of these things.

00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.119
And what we've seen in the industry is there's kind of like an initiative for everything.

00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:57.119
And if you think about it, if you're a site leader, you gotta like actually manage that site, manage the people, be responsible for the budget, the cash flow, all the things.

00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:03.359
And you have to work on the recruitment initiative, you got to work on the mental health initiative, you got to work on the retention initiative.

00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:09.920
It's like the weight on these leaders' shoulders is like it's almost like unbearable.

00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:13.279
And if you think about it, there's all these issues.

00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:17.359
But if we look at it through the lens of leadership, look at it through a bigger picture.

00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:32.559
If we could teach these leaders transformational leadership skills, how to communicate better with your team, how to inspire them so that they want to go to work, how to create an environment where people can get stuff done without feeling burnt out.

00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:38.480
Not to say it's all the problems are gonna go away, but all of those problems, they're gonna be less hard.

00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:52.559
And the burden on that leader is gonna be less because they're just showing up what's the best way that I can lead today versus trying to juggle all the separate initiatives that they're required to do.

00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:59.440
So that was kind of a big aha moment for us this year is that it's actually not about women, it's about transformational leadership.

00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.839
And what's fascinating is again, I always get curious.

00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.640
I go down the rabbit hole of research.

00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:13.839
And what we learned through that is Gen Z does not respond to transactional leadership.

00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:18.240
So they do not want to go into an environment where they're they're kind of told what to do.

00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:20.319
There's this very prescriptive thing.

00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:28.400
They don't really, they're just kind of like seeing the immediate task at hand and they're waiting for their manager to give them the next task.

00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.480
They want to feel a sense of purpose.

00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:36.480
They want to feel like that they're contributing something, and they are actually aware of what drives their ambition.

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:41.680
So these Gen Z knows, they know intrinsically what drives me, what excites me.

00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:49.279
They have that self-awareness and they come into a place that's extremely transactional and it is not fueling their ambition.

00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:49.519
Right.

00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:54.799
And what's interesting is they, I think in older generations, it was like, well, this is part of it.

00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:59.680
You got to put in your dues before, like Gen Z doesn't have that belief.

00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:05.440
So if they're they're not gonna come and thrive in a transactional environment.

00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.079
And so that is, I think, the bigger opportunity.

00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:13.599
If we want young people in this industry, the leadership really needs to change.

00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:17.759
And it's a huge opportunity to activate these people, get them excited.

00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.680
And talking about the World Series, um, I was talking to someone from like this is a big multinational company.

00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:25.839
And at some point, they had acquired St.

00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:30.319
Mary's Cement, which is a cement company in southwestern Ontario.

00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.799
And it's they've been around for a really long time.

00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:39.759
And they kind of like talk about this story of like, we built Toronto, like our cement is in the foundation of these, all of these old buildings.

00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.799
And I was talking to someone, they're in the US, they work for this company.

00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.519
We were talking about the World Series and like the I think it's called the Rogers Center.

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:50.079
It used to be called the Sky Dome when I was growing up.

00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:56.720
But I'm like, I bet your products are in that building because it was built like in the 90s, right?

00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.559
And it was renovated just a couple of years ago, or maybe it's even still being renovated.

00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.200
I'm like, I bet your products are in that building.

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:09.680
And it was just this smile on their face, this like, wow, like I am a part of that.

00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:20.079
And that's, I think, the opportunity to invite people to contribute to something like that, building the place where the Blue Jays almost won the World Series.

00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:21.759
Like, it's such a powerful vision.

00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.559
It's so exciting that it rallies people.

00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:28.640
And I think that's the opportunity that transformational leadership brings.

00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:35.680
I mean, it's such a great way to kind of frame it, ending it with, hey, you get to physically see something, right?

00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:48.160
I've always thought architecturing instruction was, you know, I wasn't a writer, but by designing and seeing that built for a client and the occupants in it, it meant something to all of them.

00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:53.519
You know, is going to leave some sort of memory for the rest of their lives.

00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:59.599
Um I want to back up because you said there's a lot that you were able to cover there.

00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:11.440
I go back and think about those leaders who, yes, they're there, you will always have a lot on your plate.

00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:17.440
And a lot of times we're not great at getting people, like we talked earlier, they're coming from the field and coming to office.

00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:24.880
That development period that it takes from managing tasks to leading humans.

00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:28.319
And that's that piece you're talking about.

00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:44.160
It's like getting them to recognize that you are now there to lead other humans who aren't always going to know or get it right, and same for you.

00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.119
That you can't predict the future.

00:32:47.119 --> 00:33:00.000
And they have all of those tasks, plus a labor force that is much smaller, they're more hours, everything's behind, they're seeing the income sheet, so all of those pressures exist.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:12.160
And trying to frame it for them to understand like those problems exist because we're not solving this human connection piece.

00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:20.480
Generational, you got into that, everything was very much like check the box, do your work, move on.

00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:22.240
Technology has changed that.

00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:24.640
Your all work's always surrounding you.

00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:36.400
Um thinking about these leaders and trying to get them for themselves on board to the transactions are always going to happen.

00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:59.440
We want them to be healthier and more purposeful by helping you see that human, that human on your team, that yes, you may recognize as going through you mentioned mental health, and was able to listen to a panel about suicide prevention in this industry being so critical.

00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:11.599
Well, if we don't coach and lead, help uh the current leaders see these things, then it's only going to get worse as the bucket empties, right?

00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:13.679
As we get less and less people into it.

00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:41.440
So we're going to have even a bigger problem in the next five years if we don't see that it's actually an opportunity, the opportunity to make what we do more purposeful and to make our daily lives even easier by reframing our mindset around what a leader means and how to manage the task.

00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:48.800
The transition, the transactional piece is actually a management piece, not a leadership piece.

00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:54.559
So it just seems like we're going to have more and more problems if this isn't addressed.

00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:55.119
Yeah.

00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.719
So that's a that is a lot.

00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:57.119
Okay.

00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:58.880
A couple of thoughts on that one.

00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:00.159
So it's interesting.

00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:02.639
I am, like you said, you have great positive energy.

00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:12.079
That is like something like we in our program, we do like a we we call it a leadership brand assessment where it's like we help people figure out like, what is that thing that makes you stand up?

00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:14.639
That's different than the technical skills that you bring to the table.

00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:16.480
And so mine is positive energy.

00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.239
So I love that you know that.

00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:23.280
You have not, I know you haven't seen my leadership brand assessment, but um, that's something that I look.

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:26.719
So I always look at it from a I'm a glass half full person.

00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:31.039
So I see a ton of transformational leaders doing this.

00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.039
And it's it's incredible, it's wonderful.

00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.760
Their jobs are usually more profitable.

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:39.840
Um, like, so it is happening.

00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.960
It's happening all it's happening all over the place.

00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.119
Um, so I'm very hopeful there.

00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:55.039
And I think what's interesting is uh people they get stuck in this, like, I can't, like, I can't invest in my leadership because I'm too busy.

00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:55.760
Right.

00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:04.639
When I'm done, when this practice is over, or when this kind of thing milestone is reached, then I will invest in my leadership.

00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:20.480
And I think there's a really helpful refrain I'd love to share is like when you're overwhelmed, when you feel like you can't breathe, when it's like you have zero time to take a leadership course or invest in coaching, that's actually the best time.

00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:24.639
Um, and I will tell you, we had some, this literally happened yesterday.

00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:26.559
We had someone in our eight-week program.

00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:34.320
Yesterday was the last day, and they said, they admitted, oh, the first four weeks, I didn't actually do anything.

00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.079
I was so behind.

00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.760
I was so overwhelmed.

00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.960
I was like, let me like, I probably shouldn't have signed up for this thing, right?

00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.960
So that's what they said in the last day.

00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:51.679
But then what they said now, they're like, my capacity, like, okay, when once we got to week four, I started showing up.

00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:52.960
I started showing up.

00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:58.559
I finally was like, you know what, it's gotten to this point, like, like the course is gonna be over and I'm gonna have missed the whole thing.

00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.079
I'm gonna start showing up.

00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:07.599
And what's interesting is their capacity to do the, they found the capacity to do the course, right?

00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:09.280
And which, which is not a lot of time.

00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.079
It's like one and a half hours a week, maybe two hours a week.

00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.599
So they they were from week four to eight, they found the capacity to do that.

00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:33.119
But in doing that and investing in that self-reflection, investing in that curiosity about what's going on in my team, that kind of downward leadership, but also what's going on in my company, that upward leadership, that future forward ability.

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.760
It opened up their capacity to do that.

00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.039
And so now they have exponentially more time.

00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.719
And literally they said, they're like, I now I used to be like running around all the time.

00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:49.760
Now I literally can have two hours a day where I can sit and do my deep work.

00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.000
And that's where that strategic thinking comes.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.440
That was like, how are we gonna solve these really hard problems?

00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:57.760
Who do I need to engage to do that?

00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.519
That's where that opened up.

00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.800
And I think it came from this place of lack.

00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:04.320
Like, I literally don't have time.

00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:09.280
I missed half the course to, you know what, I gotta suck it up and do it.

00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:24.639
And sometimes that first step is you have to suck it up and take an hour and do the thing, make that investment, whatever that looks like for you, whether it's a course, whether it's looking for coaching from someone that you work with or coaching an employee.

00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:28.639
But when you start and it doesn't need to be big, it could be 15 minutes.

00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:36.639
It just opens up that strategic thinking, that capacity, because leadership capacity, um, like it can grow.

00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:41.760
Another example is we had someone that we worked with, and I just connected with them.

00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:46.159
We worked with them a couple of years ago, and they're like, oh, now I've double the amount of direct reports.

00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:48.639
And I'm like, well, you are you working longer hours?

00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:50.239
Are you more stressed out?

00:38:50.239 --> 00:39:03.440
It's like, no, because they've grown their leadership capacity so they can actually manage more team members than they could when they weren't kind of like really at their full leadership potential.

00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:08.079
So I think that's part of it is recognizing that this is this is a thing.

00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:13.280
And a tool, uh, can I share a tool from our that we teach people how to do this?

00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.760
Because it's it's really powerful.

00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.159
So we look at kind of like the what you're describing is reactionary, right?

00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.679
Like you're waiting for the task to come and you're reacting.

00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:27.760
And so that's reactionary, and it's really hard to get out of that, right?

00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:29.679
Because there's so much coming at you.

00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:32.400
And you're like, I kind of got 80% done today.

00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.880
I'll finish the next that 20% I didn't do yesterday, and more's coming.

00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:38.639
Like it doesn't stop, right?

00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:42.480
Um, so that's a way to work, and that's where it's burnout, right?

00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:48.239
Because you're just like, you're on this hamster wheel, you got your head down, you can't even see like the progress that you're making.

00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:57.440
So getting that feedback that's going to drive you to motivate you to keep showing up, it's not gonna happen if you're just waiting for that reaction to come.

00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:01.920
And so what I challenge people to do is we This tool called the boulders and the pebbles.

00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:03.119
It's very simple.

00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:06.960
So pebbles are those reactionary things, the to-do list, right?

00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:11.039
And if you think about it, we always like to think of people to help people think of the big picture first.

00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:14.000
So you can use this for yourself, for your own career.

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.079
Like, where are you going in your career?

00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.320
What's your bigger picture goal?

00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:20.000
And what is that thing?

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:26.559
If I focused my energy on it, that I could do in the next year, that's going to get me there faster.

00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:27.920
So that's your boulder.

00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:34.320
And then you take that boulder and every day you're like, okay, what can I do today that's working towards that goal?

00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.079
And most people are like, I'm too busy for that.

00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:38.239
It's like, no, no, 15 minutes a day.

00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:38.880
That's it.

00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:44.000
15 minutes in the morning, literally do something to work towards that bigger goal.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.840
Um, if you're on a project, it's like, where are we going with the project?

00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:53.280
And looking at things like not just the end of this project, who owns this project?

00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:55.280
What else is in their pipeline?

00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:56.960
What are we trying to do with them?

00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:05.679
Like, are we trying to get more work with this company and thinking about it from a bigger picture beyond like the day-to-day and that kind of like project plan?

00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:24.239
And then you think, okay, if that's where we're going, if we, if like my company wants to grow and we have this exciting project that we're working on now, I can be curious about what else they're building and build relationships there because that's gonna help the company with that bigger goal and be like, okay, what can I do?

00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:25.519
What's the boulder?

00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:25.760
Right.

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:34.880
I can always sit, they're gonna tell me stuff that needs to get done and I can continue to be reactionary, or I can get curious, look up, think about where we're going.

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:36.639
And the boulder is that thing.

00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:38.159
And it takes longer, right?

00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:39.280
It's like pebbles.

00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:42.400
You can just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pump out 15 emails.

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:50.719
Like I had this client once that they're like, I'm like, I'm known as the person that like doesn't let an email sit in their inbox for longer than a minute.

00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:55.360
I'm like, that is gonna keep you in this reactionary mode.

00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:02.960
Yeah, you can't even take a vacation because your your reputation as the person that's always on is at risk, right?

00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:07.119
And if that's your identity, it you're going down kind of like the wrong path.

00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.400
So the boulders and the pebbles for people, it's like think about that.

00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:20.079
What's that bigger picture thing beyond today, beyond next month, beyond the next six months that you're trying to achieve, you, your team, your company, you can look at it through whatever lens.

00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:27.360
And then think about what's the thing in the next, you know, month or two that's gonna move that goal closer.

00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:28.400
It's gonna be harder.

00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.119
You might need people to help you move that boulder.

00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:35.679
But if you can figure out what that is in 15 minutes a day, work on it.

00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:43.039
And it could be as simple as if we could, you know, you know, build a relationship, build a better relationship with the owner of this project.

00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.119
And you're like, I don't even know where to start.

00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:52.000
It's like your 15 minutes is like, I'm gonna go to their website, look at who works there and send them a LinkedIn connection.

00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.960
That could be your one thing that you do on one day.

00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.920
The second day, it's like, huh, we got some shared connections.

00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.159
Maybe we could go to lunch with them.

00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:03.519
Or, and it's just like building on that little by little.

00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:14.079
And it's incredible what can happen when you put just a tiny bit of energy towards that big picture, how quickly it just goes.

00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:16.639
The impact grows, it gets bigger.

00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:24.000
Yeah, it's so helpful, like you know, going into coaching mode, like breaking down our mindsets because we're complex.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.880
Humans are very complex, and we we want instant gratification.

00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:39.199
And then when there is a goal that's out there that we want can seem so far away, like you said, it's it feels enormous, and you're like, I don't I don't even know where to begin.

00:43:39.199 --> 00:44:04.480
And that's where breaking it down into the pebbles is these daily actions to weekly to monthly that allow them to get to that, and backing up to what you you where you kind of started, like a business model is never going to work if you're waiting to change something within yourself, your team, your business when that project ends.

00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.079
Because it doesn't, like you said, it's just going to keep coming.

00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:15.280
So one I like to always tell everybody is like change starts with choice.

00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:17.119
That is your first step.

00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:29.119
And if you are looking at it from a perspective of, hey, I have all of these things to do, I have all of the stuff I've got to complete, I don't have time for this.

00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:31.360
Who's making the choice?

00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:35.280
Like, who's made that choice for you?

00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:42.960
Like, are you making the choice or are you in a default and a victim of the time that you don't have?

00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:50.480
And we like to think construction industry and those of us that are in it, like we're t very time poor.

00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:56.880
Well, we're time poor because we're not addressing the issue that you're talking about.

00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:22.320
This new look at leadership and understanding the business might look transactional, and what we do on a daily basis might look transactional, but to fix a lot of those things, or even you know, fix what we're facing now, plus all of the other innovations that are thrown at you, it's going to take this new mindset.

00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:32.800
And what's interesting, innovation's being thrown at you, and people always talk about the construction industry not being innovative, and innovation is being thrown at all of us like very quickly.

00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:44.559
But part of it is like transformational leadership, having trust, having open communication, having people that are nest, maybe not in a formal leadership role, understand the bigger picture.

00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:46.880
That is an environment to create innovation.

00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:54.719
So instead of like waiting for the innovation to be thrown at us, it's like, can we create innovation within our companies?

00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:59.039
Um, and transformational leadership creates the space for that because there's trust.

00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.599
There's actually this opportunity to manage up.

00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:03.679
And those conversations are welcomed, right?

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:14.559
It's like in a traditionally like transactional environment, if you think there's a better way of doing things, but you're kind of the lowest in the org chart, it's actually not appropriate for you to bring that up.

00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:19.360
But in a transformational model, it's like actually that feedback is welcome.

00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:30.559
And that is what leads to innovation because people have different perspectives and they bring different experiences to the table, and they might have an idea that you never thought of as the leader.

00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:37.360
And the wonderful thing about this is you can jump on that bandwig and and you look like the amazing.

00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:39.280
Like it's not like giving the credit away.

00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.559
It's like actually you do it together and you all look amazing.

00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:47.119
You all get to bring that idea forward, which is exciting.

00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:47.840
Yeah.

00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:55.599
Again, thinking of it in that way, it's it's just so important for us to realize like we don't have to know those answers.

00:46:55.599 --> 00:47:08.400
And we don't need to hold on to past beliefs or past systems or ways we've done it our whole lives because we were trained that once and we thought it would never change.

00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:15.199
Like I always say, we've got to build stronger relationships with change in the industry by first recognizing it.

00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:27.760
And to be transformational, like you've got to recognize how you feel, and you've got to have empathy for how change impacts others around you.

00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:36.159
And like you're saying, it's like you when you got to give it space and you got to give it time, and you can't rush through change.

00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:45.840
And that's what's, I think, the transactional side is I bought this system, I paid for this, I want it immediately to take effect, and it doesn't stick.

00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:49.199
And transformational is this is going to take time.

00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:58.400
That boulder is out there, and the effort that we're putting in to get these pebbles kind of out of the way is far more beneficial.

00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:10.719
And it's in that time that I'm allowing, the space that I'm giving, this empathy towards how others think about change is worth the return on investment.

00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:15.360
It's funny that you brought that up because we are in, we we just bought a new software system.

00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:22.000
And it is not going as smoothly as the sales call and demo people said it would.

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:22.559
Sure.

00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:26.400
And my mindset went, oh, we we bought the wrong one.

00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:30.239
We should have gone with that other demo because we wouldn't be in this situation.

00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.239
And it's like we're all human, right?

00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:33.360
So we go to that, right?

00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:38.079
We regret, we're like, let's cancel, like blame them.

00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:39.920
I naturally went there.

00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:43.679
But then I realized I had to go back and be like, what was the strategy behind this?

00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:52.719
Like we had a strategy, we had a problem, we saw an opportunity, we kind of researched all these things, we picked a partner, and you know what?

00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.440
Like, sometimes there's some onboarding, right?

00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:57.679
That you need to, you need to wait it out.

00:48:57.679 --> 00:48:59.679
It's not all like performance on day one.

00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:05.519
And I think that actually stems to this other issue is the like recruitment versus retention.

00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:10.559
I think there's this mindset of like, we just need people and anybody can come in.

00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:14.880
If they don't work out, it's okay, we'll get another one in the door tomorrow.

00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:22.639
And so you miss out on that growth onboarding period, which is so important.

00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:30.559
And so I think there's this cost of like people coming, like a revolving door of people that is very costly.

00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:36.800
That yeah, when you kind of look at it from that transactional, and that's where you can see the literally the numbers behind it.

00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:40.000
Like how much does it cost for you to recruit someone?

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:40.400
Right.

00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:48.079
And literally just the recruitment cost, but also the the training, the onboarding, that knowledge transfer.

00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:53.760
And if you think of that leader that's got to train new people all the time, that's exhausting.

00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:58.159
Like you pour into people, you you train them, and then they leave right away.

00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.199
That's that's another weight on that leader's shoulder.

00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:12.000
So if they could have some new tools to kind of invite them and inspire them, like show them the bigger picture, show them the path to a career, they're more likely to stay.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.360
They're gonna want to learn, they're gonna be curious, they're gonna rise to the challenge.

00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:23.119
And I think that at that can actually save a significantly like a significant amount of money pr pretty quickly.

00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:24.159
Right.

00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:31.519
Yeah, I mean, I just I hear people say, like, hey, if if they're breathing, if they can fog a mirror, we want them on the job.

00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:36.880
And it's like, well, you're looking at them, you know, like they're a piece of equipment.

00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:51.760
Um and you know, I think about it all the time for construction companies or manufacturers or whomever, like if something's broken in a in a piece of machinery or a computer or whatever, like you invest and you fix it.

00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:58.239
But when you're sitting there and looking at an employee, well, they're just supposed to be doing their their job, do their tasks.

00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:00.639
Like you need to be investing in them.

00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:02.079
You know, interesting.

00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:03.679
It's like the maintenance schedule, right?

00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:06.800
Like the equipment, the heavy equipment is on a maintenance schedule.

00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:09.599
There's maintenance contracts, like that's a thing.

00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:16.239
Whereas it's almost like, what are we doing on the employees to keep them in like top condition?

00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:17.199
Right, right.

00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:28.960
And it's not shoving them into a conference room where another manufacturer's giving a non-sales pitch, and I think about architecture and I talk about all the time, you don't learn from a CEU.

00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:31.519
You can barely remember what they even talked about.

00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:35.679
And you you're getting that credit because the state tells you you need to to keep your license.

00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:54.320
But so when you when I talk about like this transformational piece, or like, hey, if we're gonna address new innovations and figure out how to change the industry for the future labor force and draw new people in, like you've got to find that time.

00:51:54.320 --> 00:52:10.719
Like, what is it going to take for you to find that time for you to work on something that fills you more, is by that ambition, like you're talking about, like why you got into this industry, you know, the purpose of it behind everything that you're driven towards.

00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:17.280
First, over here of like, yeah, these are things I have to do to achieve that.

00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:18.480
Yeah, to be purposely.

00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:22.639
Okay, I do want to bring up the continuing education credits because it's really interesting.

00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:27.440
So we've gotten our programs like certified by a couple of those organizations.

00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:32.239
And the measure is hours consuming content.

00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:38.320
Like, literally, like that's how you get the credits is like how many hours are you sitting there listening to someone speak at you?

00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:43.039
That is the measure of successful, like continuing education, professional development.

00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:47.039
And what's interesting, and this is what makes our programs really different.

00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:51.440
We actually, from an hour's consuming content, it's actually very low.

00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:56.000
So it's not actually appealing to people who are just here for the credit.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:56.239
Right.

00:52:56.239 --> 00:53:04.079
Because our focus is transformation, is actually if you're teaching these transformational leadership skills, it's actually the work happens in the job.

00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:10.159
Like you learn the thing, then you try it that day or the next day in your job.

00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:13.679
And so the learning is happening on the job versus in the classroom.

00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:35.920
So there's a whole mindset shift of like how long it actually takes to invest in this, because it's actually not a lot, because it's really looking at what are people's strikes, what drives their ambition, what's a new tool they can try based on the situation they are facing in their job right now, and helping people see what which tool in the toolbox they want to try.

00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:43.440
So they are getting results relatively quickly without having to sit a lot of in a lot of time in a classroom.

00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:53.679
I think that's a mindset shift that does need to happen is that hours consuming equals like leadership development, because that is really not the case.

00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:01.039
No, and and change isn't an event, you know, like it is it is an ongoing thing.

00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:03.360
And in the world, it's not static.

00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.760
It situations are always going to change.

00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:10.960
So leadership, you know, hey, I got I gotta go sit in this one hour credit and now I know it all.

00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:12.800
Well, that's not the case.

00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:21.119
You're talking about application, you know, like what you're learning is now applying, and and it's on, we'll take an old term, on the job learning.

00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:21.599
Yeah.

00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:23.280
But you're applying those things.

00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:29.199
And I know that can even relate back towards like we weren't all good carpenters when you start.

00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:31.920
Like I was didn't know how to build everything.

00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.239
I had to go out there and I had to explore.

00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:41.280
I had to be in constant learning mode for that situation, for that client.

00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:52.079
So transformational leadership is an investment in s in yourself, it's an investment in your business, it's an investment in the industry.

00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:59.840
And and uh it's about leaving a legacy beyond a business that that you that gets acquired or you sell.

00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:03.920
You're doing far more for everybody that's sort of involved.

00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:07.280
And I think more people get a lot more purpose out of it.

00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:12.559
And I love that it's ambition and that it's from that standpoint because we do forget that.

00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:21.840
We just f we forget it why we're doing it, and we go to that snap back into well, I just gotta get the I just gotta get the job done.

00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:24.960
I just gotta do what's in front of me.

00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.159
So we could go on forever.

00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:34.800
Um, because this is such a great conversation that this industry, you know, I want to absorb it.

00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:41.840
I want them to take it and start applying it and and be, you know, watching everything that you're putting out.

00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:56.480
And I know there's a lot of us who want to see that transformational piece happen so that the next generation, like you talked about, is coming in to an industry that can help us solve some really big problems.

00:55:56.480 --> 00:56:03.199
So, one of the last questions I always like to ask is like, what is success for solving this problem look like?

00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:11.280
So I think success looks like when you go to a project and you can feel it.

00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:23.280
You can see it, you can see people like having each other's backs, you can see people collaborating, you can see innovation come out of the project.

00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:27.599
I think that's what success looks like is when you're at the project site.

00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:33.440
And the interesting thing about construction is that it's not a one-person job, it's not even a one company job.

00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:35.360
It's not even a one industry job, right?

00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:37.360
You need insurance, you need financing.

00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:41.360
There's so many different companies that are working on this.

00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:46.239
And I think success looks like they're all working, they're all excited.

00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:51.440
They are getting stuff done on time, they're getting stuff done from a profitable perspective.

00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:54.239
They're building those long-term relationships and you can see it.

00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:56.559
You go and you're like, this is inspiring.

00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:57.360
I'm inspired.

00:56:57.360 --> 00:56:58.639
Look at what we're doing.

00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:01.199
Look at the people, look at their contribution.

00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.360
People are excited to go to work.

00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:06.079
That's what I think success looks like for me.

00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:06.960
Yeah.

00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:17.360
Well, I love it because again, it is all about the humans and how we feel fulfilled and purposeful.

00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:20.960
So it's the end of the year.

00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:26.159
That's a great little nudge of like everyone gets to hit a little reset.

00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:38.239
So, as we're heading into this year, what would you say some first steps that those maybe listening can can look at for themselves or things that you have out there that might be helpful for them?

00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:38.880
Um, okay.

00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:44.400
I think one thing is just to do that self-reflection to really figure out what drives your ambition.

00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:46.079
This is such a great opportunity.

00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:48.079
So many people do not know this.

00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:52.239
So a way to do it is like I love pen and paper.

00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:56.400
Um, think about one day, literally, you can do this either like at the end of the day.

00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:58.000
Think of all the things you did.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:01.440
What things energized me and which things drained me.

00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:04.719
And that will give you clues as to what drives your ambition.

00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:07.119
And then the other way of doing it is look at your calendar.

00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:10.000
If you're like a, you know, have tasks scheduled in your calendar.

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.639
Go through your calendar for the week and be like, what was energizing?

00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:13.440
What was not?

00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:17.599
And the things that are energizing, just notice, okay, when I'm doing that, how do I feel?

00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:19.920
Um, so that's the first part is the awareness.

00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:23.199
And then for 2026, it's about that intention.

00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:26.960
How can I be intentional about finding more of those things?

00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:32.800
So, example, people will find, okay, my ambition is I love like the finish line.

00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:36.480
I love seeing the end of the project, you know, the cut the ribbon, the grand openings.

00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:38.559
That is like, I love that.

00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:40.639
I love seeing the big picture, right?

00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:44.239
So look at place it, look for tell your manager.

00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:50.719
I like to work on projects that I can be involved for the whole time and I can see it from start to finish because that's going to drive you.

00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:55.679
Whereas other people are like, oh, I love being like an expert in the process, solving problems.

00:58:55.679 --> 00:58:58.800
This maybe like, okay, maybe I'm not on one project.

00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:03.280
I get to be on multiple projects and I'm coming in to help them when there's this type of problem.

00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:04.239
I get to do that.

00:59:04.239 --> 00:59:05.679
Cause then you get to fuel that.

00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:08.880
So having those conversations, knowing what it is for yourself.

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.960
And then when you can have a conversation with your manager, but this is what I learned about myself.

00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:14.559
This is what's going to make me thrive.

00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:18.719
What opportunities are available in 2026 that it could align with this?

00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:21.840
It's a different, it's proactive versus reactive.

00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:22.800
What are they going to put me on?

00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:24.719
Like I have, it's December 28th.

00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:28.559
I don't know what I'm doing on January 2nd when I go back, right?

00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:35.840
That's the reactive and this idea that you can actually like let people know that this is what you need to thrive.

00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:38.239
And those opportunities are probably available.

00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:40.239
It's just about connecting the dots.

00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:42.639
Um, so just being a little bit intentional around that.

00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:47.440
And then if you have that awareness yourself, you can actually do this for your team.

00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:52.639
Ask your team to do this exercise and ask them to tell you what they find out about themselves.

00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:59.599
And then as a leader, you can align what they care about with what opportunities are available in the company.

00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:05.599
And you just you get that little tiny bit more of motivation from yourself and from them.

01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:09.679
So I think that would be a challenge for people to at the to do at the end of the year.

01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:10.719
I mean, it's great.

01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:12.960
It's taking that self-check-in, right?

01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:14.239
Everyone wants to do it.

01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:16.719
They want to set something they'll want to stick with.

01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:18.000
They want to commit to.

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:22.239
And everything that you've been talking about is a commitment to themselves.

01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:26.639
It's a commitment to their team, commitment to their industry and their business.

01:00:26.639 --> 01:00:34.880
And I know I mentioned it before, but for all the listeners, you have first choice here.

01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:43.679
You don't have to allow the feeling of I don't have time, go any further.

01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:51.599
Take a moment, as Andrea has said, go through your self-assessment and make that choice for yourself.

01:00:51.599 --> 01:01:04.079
And make it for, you know, aligning yourself again with why you got into this industry, what what drives your ambition, what is your purpose, and keep reflecting on that.

01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:14.400
It is those things, as Andrea said, it's like you're checking your calendar, you're doing these things because it's really important that you are aligned with self.

01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:28.320
And um that's going to help you become not only more freer into the things that are happening for you and with you, um, but also just aligned with benefiting the industry as a whole.

01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:31.199
So, Andrea, I love the conversation.

01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:36.800
I feel like this won't we'll probably have a part two at some point because it's so important.

01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:57.519
And I'm so glad that you sat on a bench as a mother, reading a magazine and saw something that sparked your curiosity to dive in and help, you know, an entire industry, you know, and I know you mentioned before women in construction, and it's so important.

01:01:57.519 --> 01:01:59.039
That work is so important.

01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:06.320
We need women in construction, we need them to feel um heard, seen, sponsored throughout their career.

01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:12.159
So I just appreciate everything that you're doing and everything you've done, and I know all the work that you will continue to do.

01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:13.280
So thanks for being on the show.

01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:15.039
Thank you so much for having me, Ryan.

01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:16.480
Yeah, well, so great.

01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:17.519
I appreciate it.

01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:20.320
And and hopefully Toronto will pull it off next year.

01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:21.599
Yeah, that would be amazing.

01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:22.800
And also, can I share?

01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:26.400
We do have a podcast if people want to learn more about our approach to leadership.

01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:28.639
Um, it's called Rethinking Leadership in Construction.

01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:31.360
It's Ambition Theory, Rethinking Leadership in Construction.

01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:33.519
And we also do quantitative research.

01:02:33.519 --> 01:02:39.440
So if you're curious, like I am, about what the data says, um, we have two reports called Building Better.

01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:45.920
Um we did one in 2023 and we did one in 2025 with the National Center for Construction Education and Research.

01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:48.400
So you can grab those on our website.

01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:50.559
It's ambitiontheory.com.

01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:51.679
Okay, great.

01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:52.000
Thanks.

01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:53.440
Sorry, I should have mentioned that.

01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:55.360
I will add that into the show notes.

01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:58.480
I will put links in there so that everybody can grab that information.

01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:03.119
And I know on the podcast you were able to share some of that uh information as well.

01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:06.719
And it is it is um very important work that you are doing.

01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:11.840
So again, thanks, Andrea, and I hope you have a great rest of your day.

01:03:12.159 --> 01:03:12.639
Awesome.

01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:13.199
Thank you.

01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:14.559
All right, thanks.

01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:20.480
So that is the episode with Andrea Jansen from Ambition Theory.

01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:34.559
And I think what's so intriguing is that there's an individual who is out uh reading a magazine and spots something and it says, This has caught my attention.

01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:40.079
I'm seeing uh a problem here, and I want to dive in to solve it.

01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:59.119
Um, and for her to get connected to the construction industry is so critical because four percent of our um employees within the construction industry are women in the United States, somewhere around four percent.

01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:05.920
But in the United States, more than 51% of our population are women.

01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:29.199
And I know that the industry may have looked one way in the past, but we cannot solve our problems, be it from a future labor force and the demand on what it is that we need to go build with our infrastructure to housing.

01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:35.760
We know that the labor force that we have today isn't getting the work done.

01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:38.719
And it is not their fault.

01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:48.880
Now, what we have to look at as leaders, and we talked about the transformational piece in a very, very transactional industry.

01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:58.400
We have to figure out how do we find time to focus on these things for ourselves, for our teams, and for our businesses.

01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:17.119
We cannot keep allowing the I'm too busy, I'll wait till this project is over to define that area of time for us to focus on our leadership and to focus on how we're going to address our businesses moving forward.

01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:29.760
If the next generation is looking for transformational leaders, and that is our recruitment area, then we need to go towards that human side.

01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.239
It doesn't mean we're weak.

01:05:32.239 --> 01:05:42.239
It doesn't mean that we are giving in to what we've always known and making that irrelevant.

01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:51.360
That's a foundational piece that has gotten us here, but we need to release some of it because the transactions are going to happen.

01:05:51.360 --> 01:06:07.519
But the transformational piece is this area of freedom, of release to see the person sitting next to you in a different way, to see problems in a new way and to address them in a new way.

01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:14.960
Because the situations have changed, and the tools that we're using now are no longer addressing the issue.

01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:18.400
It isn't about an instant gratification.

01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:20.719
It is not going to be easy.

01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:25.199
But that work that you're putting in for yourself and everyone else is worth it.

01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:43.360
It is worth it to everyone around, and it is worth it to the industry because the transactional piece is what's holding us back from addressing a lot of the largest challenges we have.

01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:53.119
I know that we can always feel overwhelmed, and we will always, as humans, put those barriers up.

01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:58.639
We will always think the obstacles are bigger than they are.

01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:13.679
So as we discussed, take a moment, go through some self-reflection, check in with yourself, look for that self-awareness, not only just because it's the end of the year, but because you deserve it.

01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:18.719
Because your team deserves it, and because the industry deserves it.

01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:25.760
With that, this is our uh final guest episode of 2025.

01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:39.280
It is an extra guest episode with the goal heading into 2026 that we are going to shift our schedule a little bit with the podcast to where we will have two guests each month.

01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:48.880
They will drop on the second and fourth Tuesday of the month, with bonus episodes dropping on the third Thursday of the month.

01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:57.039
So expanding the opportunity to hear from other people within the industry as well as continuing with the bonus episodes.

01:07:57.039 --> 01:08:00.480
So until next time, I hope that you stay well.

01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:12.800
I hope that you're able to find those self-reflection moments, and I hope that you're able to continue to activate curiosity within yourself, but also within others in the industry.

01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:45.520
Until next time, keep leaning with curiosity.