Dec. 9, 2025

Efficiency in Construction Leadership: How Collaboration Drives Innovation

Efficiency in Construction Leadership: How Collaboration Drives Innovation

Summary Ryan Ware & Brian Skripac of the DBIA dive into change leadership & leading change in construction through innovative coaching techniques & effective change management in the AEC industry. Unpacking the evolution of design build and BIM adoption in construction, virtual design, AI, emphasizing collaboration, efficiency, and technology as pivotal forces transforming project outcomes within the construction industry. Listeners will learn how to overcome change resista...

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AI In ConstructionVDCDesign BuildIndustrialized ConstructionConstruction TechnologyTransformational Leadership

Summary

Ryan Ware & Brian Skripac of the DBIA dive into change leadership & leading change in construction through innovative coaching techniques & effective change management in the AEC industry. Unpacking the evolution of design build and BIM adoption in construction, virtual design, AI, emphasizing collaboration, efficiency, and technology as pivotal forces transforming project outcomes within the construction industry. 

Listeners will learn how to overcome change resistance, understand the significance of communication & change management, and leverage data-driven decision-making to ensure successful project delivery. Hear expert insights on construction leadership development & construction leadership training, highlighting construction culture's critical role & the human element necessary for innovation. Practical strategies for adopting design build principles and fostering continuous learning are shared, empowering leaders to excel in their AEC industry careers.

Takeaways

  • Efficiency is key in the design and construction process.
  • Technology can significantly improve project outcomes.
  • Collaboration among teams leads to better project delivery.
  • Resistance to change is often rooted in fear of risk.
  • Communication is essential for successful project execution.
  • Data and metrics are crucial for measuring success.
  • Design Build promotes a collaborative approach to construction.

Chapters

03:00 The Evolution of Technology in Architecture
09:04 Overcoming Resistance to Change
14:42 The Importance of LOD and Project Clarity
23:50 Quality and Innovation in Design Build
26:50 Future of Design Build in the Construction Industry
34:39 The Importance of Collaboration in Design Build
37:34 Cultural Shifts & Psychological Safety in Construction
42:04 Learning from Experience: The Value of Feedback
50:04 Aggregating Innovations for Project Success
01:01:22 Measuring Success in Design Build Projects

Guest
A B.S. Arch.  graduate from The Ohio State University, he brings 20 years of experience as a digital construction innovator, showing how VDC maximizes value within design-build’s whole-team approach. He specializes in uniting people, processes, and BIM-enabled technologies to improve collaboration, performance, and lifecycle outcomes across the built environment. An industry thought leader, publishe

Send us your thoughts, ideas, questions

Connective Consulting Group
Helping construction leaders simplify change, strengthen trust, and move forward with clarity.

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryankware/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/connective-consulting-group-llc

https://connectiveconsultinggrp.com/

https://connective-coaching.com/

https://ryanware.me/

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WEBVTT

00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.760
It's like, yeah, why can't we just use the model?

00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:03.680
Let's push it to get to that stage.

00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:11.279
And sure, there's risk and there's, you know, all this other stuff with it, but I don't think we're that far from being able to, you know, actually realize that.

00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:14.160
It's a huge opportunity once we can take advantage of it.

00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:17.440
And that leads into the whole industrialized construction thing.

00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:20.320
You know, seeing that end of it, that's huge.

00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:25.679
Companies who can take take advantage of that integration are gonna see value.

00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:01.759
I am Ryan Ware, and really excited about this conversation that we're about to have.

00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:10.079
It is an area that from my career focusing in architecture and construction was a big part of what I wanted to achieve.

00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:17.359
So today we're having with us Brian Scrippak with the Design Build Institute of America.

00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:18.879
Hey Brian, how are you doing?

00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:19.359
Good.

00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:20.319
How are you, Ryan?

00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:21.439
Doing good.

00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:25.439
Thank you so much for being willing to participate in the conversation.

00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:34.000
I know a little bit about your history and we crossed path a few times, but I want you to tell a little bit about yourself before we dive into activating curiosity.

00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:35.120
Yeah, no, sure.

00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:36.640
And and first off, thanks for having me.

00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:40.319
I appreciate the uh the invitation to be on your podcast.

00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:41.920
I'm looking forward to the conversation.

00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:54.159
Yeah, my my background uh currently now at the Design Build Institute of America, I really started um architecture by education and practice for about nine years.

00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:59.680
And then in 2005, um I took the I took the BIM tangent.

00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:08.719
I I left the world of practice uh in a traditional architecture role, um, you know, working on healthcare, higher ed projects, which is really where I spent most of my career.

00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:16.800
Um, but then I started um, you know, I started working with technology and implementing it in different firms.

00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:21.840
Um I did that for uh really a short time, uh about two years.

00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:25.520
And then I went back to the design firm that I left to become a BIM manager.

00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:37.680
Um and I was in that role uh a couple different firms since then, um, you know, starting in architecture, and then in 2012, I had the opportunity to join a firm here in Pittsburgh, Astorino.

00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:49.520
Uh the first project I worked on, we were a uh about a between 100, 100, probably like 125-person AE firm that also had this construction management group.

00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:55.120
And the first project that I worked on was a healthcare facility where we did it in what we called design-led design build.

00:02:55.120 --> 00:03:12.240
So we were the architect, the engineer, and we were also the design builder, the you know, the the construction manager executing on this project and being able to see this kind of continuation of what we were able to do as the single entity to deliver the projects was pretty exciting.

00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.599
Um, we had eventually been acquired shortly after that.

00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:36.159
We were acquired by Canon Design, and they were really interested in this this kind of design-led design build thing that we had built out, and you know, we had a similar you know, market segment profile uh that we were working in and had the opportunity to work there for till 2021 when I joined DBA DBIA and working on a lot of different projects.

00:03:36.159 --> 00:04:00.400
Um, you know, a lot of design build work, whether we were doing it internally, we may have just been the architect or just the engineer, but really seeing all these multiple facets was interesting, and then you know, looking for for somewhat of a career change, uh, you know, happen to be in the right spot at the right time when uh DVIA was looking to really advance the technology conversation with and design build.

00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:11.039
So I had the opportunity to take on this role and lead the conversation about you know BIM VDC and you know all of the what now is becoming you know anything tangential to that.

00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:17.360
You know, there's so many other technologies that are evolving how we design, construct, and operate the built environment.

00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.680
It's it's really exploded beyond that.

00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:26.240
So yeah, that's uh that was my my winding career path to DBIA.

00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:28.800
Well, I you know, that thank you for sharing that.

00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:35.040
I think I first heard your name, yes, when you were focusing and transitioning into the to the BIM world.

00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:40.319
Um, you know, and that was that 2005, 2006 kind of area.

00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:42.639
Yeah, we are starting to look at it, you know.

00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:45.680
You know, most people know my background as an architecture as well.

00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:51.920
And it is, you know, your name was kind of coming out as that leader in that that BIM area.

00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.240
Fast forward 20 years later.

00:04:54.240 --> 00:05:02.079
And like you mentioned and talk about it a lot on the podcast, is this industrialized construction area and this convergence.

00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:20.480
So I'm sure we'll get into a lot of that as it relates to, you know, one being a uh really a delivery model and process and how that's evolved, and then accepting of this, you know, technology within the industry um throughout that delivery model.

00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:30.000
So I'm glad you shared your perspective, what you enjoyed about it inside of a firm and how the firm started to kind of gravitate uh towards that.

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:51.360
So you know, I always like to kick off, you know, the first question really being around knowing that that most people who who have a career like yours where you've you've transitioned right throughout, you know, whether your role was traditional practicing architecture to I see an opportunity here, an opportunity here to help kind of solve a problem.

00:05:51.360 --> 00:06:06.879
So and you could take this in a couple of paths because I know one, the DBIA versus yourself, but that you know, the really that problem that you were like, you know what, this might be an opportune time, but like this is what I've really been passionate about solving.

00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:10.720
Yeah, I I I think it's just efficiency, right?

00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:19.519
And I I can remember um, you know, working on projects, you know, detailing things, and okay, I'm gonna change something in my floor plan.

00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:21.279
You know, this is going back to 2005.

00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:24.240
I gotta update my floor plan, I'm gonna update the elevation, I go update this.

00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:26.240
Wait, there's a tool that I can just do that once.

00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:27.279
Why am I not using that?

00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.560
Oh my gosh, why that is there's such efficiency?

00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:41.040
I just think about the the kind of the unfortunate mundane nature of the construction document process, the traditional construction document process.

00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:49.920
And if, like, wow, if there's things in the if there's technology-driven solutions that can take this away so I can focus on other things, how much better would I be?

00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:58.000
And thinking through the detail, not worrying about updating something in seven different spots and trace going down the rabbit hole of updating it everywhere.

00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:02.240
Um, I think those were that was just the basic, you know, insight.

00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:06.720
Um, you know, back in 2005, seeing that, be like, wow, I could do this so much.

00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:13.759
Oh, wait, I can get a rendering out of something that I'm building my construction documents from, and I don't have to go into another platform and do it.

00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:16.000
And wait, I can get my door schedule here.

00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.160
I don't have to update it, my my plans, and then go over to Excel to do it.

00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:21.600
Oh, wait, I don't have to do it.

00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:23.439
It was all of those things.

00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:36.720
And for me, you know, having that opportunity, leaving practice, going into, you know, working in that Autodesk reseller channel and having this, you know, getting my hands on this new tool and going back to my peers in the industry was like, look at what we can do.

00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.160
This is amazing, this is great.

00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.240
And then I very quickly realized I don't want to be selling this anymore, I want to go do it.

00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:42.720
Right.

00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:52.079
Now I went back and did it and implemented it in our firm and you know, really tried to drive all of these experiences that I had and you know, try to move it forward.

00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:55.360
So and it seems kind of simple, but it's just efficiency, right?

00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:00.079
We all, you know, design, you know, design firms, there's an efficiency there.

00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:06.000
We we do stuff in one platform, we do redo it again, another platform, we do it again another platform, then we send it and share it.

00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.279
And it was just like there, there's a better way to do these things.

00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:15.519
I can be more efficient using this building information modeling tool that's out there.

00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:20.079
Um, and then you know, moving beyond that, it was how we collaborate.

00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:42.799
And that was, you know, just aside from you know, design build, you know, I wasn't thinking about design build back then, but I can remember a couple of projects in like 07-08 where you know the whole the use of Revit, which is what I was seeing in the market I was in, there's other tools out there, but you know, was the architects were gravitating towards it, and then we saw the engineers start grabbing toward it, gravitating toward it.

00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:54.960
We had a in Columbus, we had a large courthouse project where we had, I can remember by that by the end of the project, we could barely open the model to print out the record drawings, you know, for our final deliverables for PDFs.

00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:56.320
It was so big.

00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:02.480
Um, but we had all of this, and then the next project I was working on, we were starting to see the contractor work on it.

00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:15.919
Um, and you know, we had the opportunity, there was a large, large healthcare project here just outside of Pittsburgh we were doing with Turner and seeing what they were doing and how the information that we created as designers could be utilized in construction.

00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:36.320
That was another, I was like, hey, we got to break down these walls and collaborate better and you know, see how we can share this information all the way to working with Ohio State and being one of the authors with my you know colleagues from Messer, uh you know, writing the Ohio State BIM project delivery standard and understanding how this went downstream to owners.

00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:51.600
So, you know, the challenge is really one of this connectivity and life cycle management of a project and you know producing quality deliverables that can be taken advantage of the entire life cycle of a project to deliver better work for our owners.

00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:57.759
I mean, there's so many good things there to kind of dive into.

00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:01.919
I I I want to pick on the first word that you said, which was efficiency.

00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:18.639
And and I think you know, when I we think about tools and all the technology, I mean I saw I actually saw an image on your VDC primer from the DVIA, and there's a um um off to the side is the digital pad.

00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:27.519
I'm like, I bet most people don't know what that is, but a digitizing pad was a mouse that you would you would look at or onto the side.

00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.360
There was no toll bar on the screen.

00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.840
So that's how I'm dating myself, but that's how I'm gonna do it.

00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:32.799
I remember those, yep.

00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:37.279
Yeah, and CAD from from hand drafting, but okay, let's go back to the efficiency.

00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.840
Um there it's a business, right?

00:10:41.840 --> 00:11:01.360
Architecture firms are a business, and I think a lot of times that efficiency can relate to the success of the business and the bottom line, but it also has a human cost to it of like, yeah, who wants to keep opening Excel to do you know door schedules, you know, and updating it, and it's not automatic.

00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:23.519
So you did recognize that very early on that this intelligent system, you know, which was at that time Revit, everybody using it, was about the human not having to go through something repeatedly, you know, not have to go through something that brought just you know little value, if anything, to the other side.

00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:49.279
And then you started recognizing like, hey, there's there's something here where not only from a a design but a construction side to to an owner side of linking all of these things together better so that you know we're all delivering a better project to the client, but also experiencing something different.

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.200
So is that is that something that you felt as you went through it?

00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:57.440
Like, hey, we're we all seem to be enjoying this a little better.

00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:59.919
Yeah, I mean, I I I think it was, right?

00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:05.440
And people were I I can remember doing product demonstrations, and people are like, oh, you just did that that quick.

00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:06.320
Oh my goodness.

00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:14.639
And you know, I can remember taking experiences that I had on projects and pain points and showing other people, be like, this is the opportunity that you have.

00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:16.879
Um yeah, I think that was big.

00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:28.639
Uh, I I think the other thing was one of the things I was always interested in, even in my my early days of modeling and and working with our project teams, or just, you know, don't do things twice.

00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:30.720
You know, that that's just a direct efficiency.

00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:32.159
But it was a balancing act too.

00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:42.000
At the early days of Revit, I mean, I think we people were excited about the availability of information and they were doing all these other things.

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:47.840
And I think there was a little bit of a bump in the road of like, oh, well, it's just making, we're making us do more drawings.

00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.799
It's like, well, no, people are you're making yourself do more drawings.

00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:57.039
You're like, oh, I can cut a section every five feet, so I'm gonna double the amount of wall sections that I have on my sheet because I can.

00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.399
It's like, well, no, that doesn't, you know, no, no stop.

00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:08.000
Just because you can doesn't mean you should, was uh was a huge rallying cry back in the early in in the in my early days.

00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.279
It's like, well, should I model this?

00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:10.240
It's like, no, why?

00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:11.039
Why would you do that?

00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:16.399
You know, you're you know, and I think it's interesting, even back then it was, do I model something?

00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.480
How do I model this for the sake of getting in on the construction documents?

00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:49.840
And I think, you know, not to go on a I'm gonna go on a tangent here, but you know, this is that that's one of the things that I that still pains me about, you know, construction documents and shop drawings really being a existing hurdle to you know the full embracing of what we can do with these models because we have to spend time modeling something, but 99% of the time our contract is that paper set of deliverables.

00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.720
So people deviate from the model to get it looking right on the drawings.

00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.159
And that was always a historic challenge, but you had to get past that.

00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:01.120
But now we can we can build things now that everybody, you know, people know how to model efficiently.

00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:05.679
It was always like, why would I model something half-assed?

00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:06.159
Yeah.

00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.759
Just so I can overdraw over it and two-dimensional stuff.

00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:11.840
It's like that doesn't that never made any sense to me.

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:20.559
And that was always like uh, you know, the kind of people side of you know, transitioning that culture and the workflow of people to think about like do it here so you don't have to do it here.

00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:20.879
Yeah.

00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:26.159
If you do it here, the structural engineer can take advantage of it, or somebody else can take advantage of it.

00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.240
And you know, how are you gonna utilize it?

00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.720
I think now that's where we're getting at in the industry.

00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:36.720
The you know, the accessibility of these models now becoming expected deliverables from project teams.

00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:42.159
We have to have higher quality um, you know, skills and output that we're doing.

00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:54.159
And I think what it's really gonna flip is when we start, you know, being able to rely on a model as a useful deliverable and not having to detail things like you know, how many times we have to say hot's on the right, cold's on the left?

00:14:54.159 --> 00:15:00.000
You know, the this little symbol means it's a brick unit as opposed to a 45-degree, you know, dash.

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:10.480
My my boss at Astorino was like ringing that bell in you know 2012 when I when I joined them, he's like, why can't we just use, you know, and that that always stuck with me, right?

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.320
It's like, yeah, why can't we just use the model?

00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.320
Let's push it to get to that stage.

00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:24.720
And sure there's risk and there's you know all this other stuff with it, but I don't think we're that far from being able to, you know, actually realize that it's a huge opportunity once we can take advantage of it.

00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:30.879
And that leads into the whole industrialized construction thing, you know, seeing that end of it, that's huge.

00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:36.000
Companies who can take take advantage of that integration are gonna see value.

00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:36.960
Yeah.

00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:45.600
I mean, it's yeah, flashbacks to uh to practicing, but that idea of, like you said, the model.

00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.360
What was the model when we first started in Revit?

00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.159
What was the model meant for right versus those documents?

00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:58.559
Like, what is a permit set versus the construction document set?

00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:03.600
Um and and figuring that all out and the level of model that you were going to go.

00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.080
And at that time, we were not talking LODs, right?

00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.840
There was no level of design, it was just yeah, yeah, it didn't exist.

00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:18.720
And you mentioned it's like, hey, people were hiding things in wall sections to you know, in in an effort to speed things up.

00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:32.720
But like you said, there was a lot of over documentation of things and working with younger you know, designers, it was always like, what are you trying to tell the trades?

00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:36.879
Which trade are you telling what in this wall section and this detail?

00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:46.320
So this connection, you know, in the end, it has got to be enough information for someone to build right from a document set.

00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:50.879
But that said, we're we're going back to this.

00:16:50.879 --> 00:17:16.079
I'm gonna pull back to the humans for a second, because as we're going through this transition, um there is a level of resistance inside firms in 2005, 6, 7, and even hear it today from a BEM modeling standpoint, which there there is, you know, that piece of it to those levels of design and a misconception of what a lot of these things mean.

00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:39.839
But when we think about that, you know, resistance or those barriers or those obstacles as you fast forward now, like what have we maybe have learned about the human piece, because people's a big part of it for you, that human piece to help them see okay, the model is an opportunity.

00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:48.960
We may have always done it with documentation and paper documents, but how does the team see the model utilize it?

00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:54.640
How do they know that there's been a change, that there's been some sort of update, right?

00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:58.000
And uh through a normal bulletin process and things like that.

00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:58.960
Yeah.

00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.480
Oh, go ahead and finish.

00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.640
I mean, no, I'm just gonna, yeah, no, you could dive in.

00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:11.519
I was just gonna say, like, how what have you learned or seen that you're now, you know, from your perspective, starting to help teams apply to get to that resistance?

00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.359
I mean, I think that resistance is based on risk, right?

00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:30.079
There is a risk to I don't I don't know what may be wrong in the model or what can be assumed in the model, but I understand what the drawings look like and read, and I understand that I've done my job to document that.

00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:35.839
I think that's I think that is still the prevailing issue for the industry, right?

00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:53.119
There's still that there's some, you know, black box, you know, concern going on about what's in the model, or you know, oh, I have this, I have a design option, or I have this other thing that's in there, and I don't want somebody to be concerned with this, but I think it all goes back to communication, right?

00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:58.880
Using technology doesn't alleviate the fact for us to communicate and collaborate with one another.

00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.319
And you know, something you mentioned earlier, LOD.

00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:14.079
I've been part of the the LOD committee, I think I back in 2012 when I started uh here in Pittsburgh at Astorino, my my boss Ron Delaria was on the committee and I got engaged in that.

00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.519
And to today, I it is the most valuable tool to mitigate just that.

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:29.039
You know, being able to have this kind of pool planning effort on a project and say, this is how we're gonna evolve our deliverables, this model-based deliverable.

00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:54.640
These are the individual components, these are the level of development that they've advanced to and what they can be relied upon, and mapping out for people to be able to tell for a structural engineer to have a plan to say that my you know, structural columns and all of my steel framing is gonna be at this LOD to be relied upon by you, the architect, and the rest of the team at this stage is valuable, right?

00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.160
It's not I'm gonna wait till 100% or 75% CDs.

00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:58.960
Yeah, I got it.

00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:00.960
Well, what are these incremental milestones?

00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:08.400
And yeah, maybe I don't have all the documentation done for that submittal, but it's been defined and thought out, and now I know where my ceiling's at.

00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:23.599
Now I know where the bottom of that steel beam is, and now the str the mechanical engineer and the plumbing engineer can understand how much space they have and where they're gonna route things through, but I don't need to wait until a set of construction documents come out and it says a W whatever on it to stand it and see it.

00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:27.920
I think that starts to accelerate the ability to collaborate and communicate.

00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:33.680
Um, I think the other challenge is having that knowledge and understanding at the outset of a project.

00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:50.160
Um, and this is so at DBIA, one of the documents that that our committee actually just published, not you know, it was in October we published it, we just presented it a couple weeks ago at our conference, is the VDC project leaders' roles and responsibilities on design build project.

00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:56.880
And we break it out into um you know a DBIA primer field where we you know have three major sections, right?

00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:03.359
It's people, process, and technology, and we have 16 different implementing techniques um throughout the document.

00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:11.839
And you know, this this engagement and understanding about what people are gonna do needs to start at the outset of a RFP and RFQ review.

00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:14.000
This is what our deliverables are.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:22.799
Um, some owners may have very robust deliverables, like I talked about you know, working on Ohio State standards and say, hey, this is what we need to address.

00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.960
We need somebody on the team to manage through this.

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:37.839
Other owners may not have that, and that's fine, but somebody on the project team needs to say, this is how we're gonna use technology to meet our deliverables, which may be a stack of paper at the end of the day, but technology can be more efficient.

00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.039
How are we gonna communicate?

00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:40.480
How are we gonna collaborate?

00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:45.200
How are we gonna integrate as a team to deliver this project successfully?

00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:53.839
And I think that's another big important part of the people side is who's leading that charge, having somebody that's skilled to be able to do that on a project and work with a team.

00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:54.720
Yeah.

00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.920
Yeah, I think you know, you talked about risk.

00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:05.680
It's any new thing we as humans, we we all think like the worst case scenario.

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:11.839
Like so, so fear fear is the first thing that comes in.

00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:16.880
And you know, clarity is what we're all what we all want.

00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:33.599
And by having you know what you're describing as as the LODs and kind of mapping things out, it'll bring enough clarity and setting those expectations, but even pulling back to that human piece of hey, you've never done this before.

00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:34.319
Yeah.

00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.640
It is going to feel like you are in a relearn stage.

00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.240
It is going to feel slower.

00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.359
It is going to feel it is new territory.

00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:55.200
Um, I always like Amy Edmondson, and that's what she focused on that new territory piece of learning, you know, learning to understand like you will struggle in this new area.

00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:01.839
And I think the construction industry, because of the I always think, you know, we do have low margins.

00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:10.480
There is that low um kind of net profitability that anything that is a risk is like, man, I could lose the business.

00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.119
And we talked about it on another podcast before.

00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:32.799
So you focusing on, hey, that human piece, like you're going like this is different, but here's the opportunity and advantages, which is where you you kind of ended, where design build is meant from a collaborative, um, I want it's not even alternative anymore, right?

00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:38.880
There's so much percentage being used with uh design build now, it is almost a majority.

00:23:38.880 --> 00:24:05.039
But this delivery model is about solving things sooner, and that we don't need to be 100% complete with it, which means clarity, 100% clarity will not exist, but it'll there'll be enough for you to to learn um as you're evolving through it and have enough information to be able to make concise decisions as a team.

00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:07.759
I think that's important to understand, right?

00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:12.960
Yeah, and and design build is no longer, you know, alternative delivery model.

00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:37.039
Our you know, last FMI report, you know, showed that nearly 50% of projects are being you know delivered as is design build, and that you know, traditional design bid build model, you know, that hard bid is is declining rapidly because people know there's a better way to do things and and having a collaborative team under that that single contract structure is is advantageous, right?

00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.839
There's no there's no blurry gray area, right?

00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:52.559
It's not I'm the design professional, and I'm my job is to give the owner a set of construction documents, and that owner is gonna take that, put it out to bid and do it, and somebody's gonna go build off of it, and I'm gonna answer questions when called upon.

00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:59.440
And but my my duty is to the owner, not the builder, and you know, the all the finger pointing that inherently comes from that.

00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:19.119
So having that design builder have that contract with the owner to provide design and construction services with the team underneath them in whatever form that design builder takes, um, you know, is you know, drives clarity in what the objectives are and how they get achieved.

00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:37.119
And, you know, I'm a big I know there's there's oftentimes apprehension, well, the you know, that's a general contractor and they're gonna beat me up or whatever from a design professional, but you know, looking at different the same way technology evolves and has innovation, you know, or the organizational structure of firms does.

00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:48.880
And I I you know the the way that the firm I was at was set up and having that single entity, that design-led design build, um, drove significant value on the projects that we had.

00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:50.799
Those were really great teams.

00:25:50.799 --> 00:26:05.599
The the opportunity to, you know, sure, once you, once you got past the friction of putting the you know, the cost estimator next to the designer and this person next to the other person, once they worked out and figured, you know, my boss said one time, he's like, you know, stop complaining.

00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:06.160
He's on your team.

00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.799
He's like, your check comes from the same person, work together.

00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:13.920
If it's gonna take you two hours to save him 20, that's a win for the team.

00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.480
Like, go, like, let's let's work through it, right?

00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.680
Um, you know, it's a it's a different mindset, it's a different culture.

00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:19.920
Yeah.

00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.480
But once you can bridge that, there's a huge opportunity.

00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:41.920
And I know I've even seen that a lot on the engineering side where you have these you know integrated firms that'll, you know, you might have a mechanical engineer, a group of mechanical engineers embedded in a you know, sheet metal fabrication shop, you know, and I, you know, seen some of those firms across the country when I'm out doing presentation stuff, and it's amazing what they're doing.

00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:47.039
They're like, they're like our shop drawings come right out of the you know, construction documents.

00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:50.640
Our engineers are using fabrication ready parts from our thing.

00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:58.000
They plug it in, we hide all the other, we turn off all the visibility of all the other extraneous stuff that they don't need for their construction documents.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:03.440
It goes out, boom, we hit it, and you know, we finish up a couple things and we're going direct to FAP.

00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:03.920
Yeah.

00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:06.160
And that is that is efficiency.

00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:13.200
That is leveraging technology and an innovative workflow to be more efficient at the work you're trying to accomplish.

00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.799
And I think that's really interesting.

00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:15.359
Yeah.

00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:22.160
No, I uh now you're talking my language, uh having spent a lot of time in direct digital manufacturing and prefab.

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:31.920
I mean, I back when I was running that digitizer pad right off to the side, it was directly running to a cam, uh, you know, part of CAM and machines actually making things.

00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.920
So that was the 90s.

00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.960
Here we are, what, 2025?

00:27:36.960 --> 00:28:02.400
I'm so excited about that piece of it, you know, for me to say, like, hey, that efficiency piece could come so much quicker utilizing an and you have design build, but we're talking about design assist in some of these areas where fabricators can now come in and we're we're doing shops during the design so that we can speed up the build, right?

00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:10.880
Which is when I think about some of the big challenges that we're facing, is we tend to speed up design, like in our industry.

00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.799
We want architects to go faster.

00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:18.480
Well, contractors make um revenue and our revenue be when shovel hits ground, right?

00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.480
As soon as that shovel is in the ground, like that's when they can start invoicing.

00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.640
That's the world that I think a lot of people came from and think about.

00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:41.039
And it's like we need to actually look at design as a really huge opportunity to bring those specialty subs up, general contractors, as you said, and learn from one another.

00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:51.920
Like, know from an architectural standpoint, like you get to detail things that are really important to detail while other things that, you know, they're not replacing you or taking work off.

00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:54.400
It's making, it's rising all ships, right?

00:28:54.400 --> 00:29:12.400
It's like bringing everybody's opportunity for not burning through fees, not losing fees in certain areas where you know we we looked at came from architecture, we know what that's like, by over-detailing, over-designing, not even having the right person in the room to ask the question.

00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:17.440
So you're doing it two to three times, as you kind of alluded to earlier uh in the podcast.

00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.680
So I think that's a huge opportunity.

00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:32.480
And I looked at it when I was, you know, started a construction company that progressive design build was our opportunity to bring in more innovation, prefabrication, speed those things up.

00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:45.599
So I I'm curious what um you know, what makes this really critical for the construction industry that if we're at 50%, right?

00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:59.680
That and it's not every sector, it's not every type of project that people are looking at design build and what it can mean, but like what could it mean to the industry as more people start to adopt it?

00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:10.160
Start to accept it and change, you know, understanding this is new, but like from a mindset standpoint, I'm I want to go back to relearning.

00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:11.200
I want to hit reset.

00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:14.799
I want to get out of default mode with just design bit build.

00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.880
Well, I think, you know, and you're right, it it's not for every market segment, right?

00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:28.880
Um, you know, if you're doing a one-time project, you're not building again, you're probably don't understand the pains of what you had in design bid build to uh to be able to move forward.

00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:42.799
And, you know, I think it's it's having the right culture and the right fit, but the the opportunity to do that, I mean, from an owner standpoint, I mean, there's a there's a risk management, there's a shift of risk, right, for an owner, which is an immediate win, right?

00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.440
They're not taking on you know the the whole spear indoctrine aspect of it.

00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:52.799
That shifts directly to the uh you know, directly to the design builder.

00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.960
Um, you know, so there's an immediate win.

00:30:54.960 --> 00:31:16.720
But you know, I think the big things we look at, you know, speed to market being an opportunity, you know, achieving budget, higher quality projects, um, you know, the opportunity for innovation and how you procure teams, those are all significant wins and opportunities that people are are documented successes that we're seeing from design build projects.

00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:23.039
Um, you know, and then there's also, I think if you're a repeat builder, which was, you know, the segment I was in, right?

00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:27.759
You know, healthcare, higher ed, there's a lot of uh, you know, there's always work going on those projects.

00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:44.079
You had historical knowledge on projects that you're able to, you know, go back and and pursue work on, you know, having that familiarity of teams and how teams work, having a qualifications-based selection process, uh, not a low bid selection process, really changes the game, right?

00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:44.400
Right.

00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:48.000
That familiarity, the execution, knowing that a team may have worked together.

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.200
Hey, we're coming together as this design build entity, and this is what we bring.

00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:55.599
We've done our last 10 projects together, and we've worked with you on three of them.

00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:58.880
And, you know, those are all things and opportunities that you have.

00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:06.240
Um, I think it also brings, you know, opportunities from a from a quality standpoint, um, I think is big.

00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:08.480
And I think there's a win on the design side too.

00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:34.240
Um, you know, the the first project that I worked on, the this this healthcare project, we had, I can remember sitting in, you know, in design meetings and you know, having the designer sitting next to the metal panel fabricator and the curtain wall fabricator and saying, Hey, I'm looking at this, and you know, them both looking at him and going, stop detailing it.

00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:39.920
Tell us what you want the the this profile edge at the at the slab edge where the two were transitioning.

00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:41.440
Just tell us what you want it to look like.

00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:42.319
Stop detailing.

00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:45.759
They're like, You're you're not doing we're gonna change it all.

00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:57.279
If you tell us that's what you want, and that's what we have to build to, we're gonna, once the drawings come out, we're gonna tell you it's not gonna work and you're gonna have to change it, you're gonna be mad at what it tell us what you want, let us go back, we'll figure out a detail, bring it back to you.

00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:01.119
He's like, Oh, there's an opportunity for design.

00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:11.039
He was able to achieve design intent without having to do some dumb detailing thing or crappy blocking, trying to hold something up that was never gonna work, it was ultimately gonna change.

00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.759
You know, we saw those type of things over and over again.

00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:25.519
I can remember our our millwork and casework fabricator going, please don't give us 10 sheets of of your standard casework details that you pulled off the shelf and don't apply to this project.

00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.960
They're like, and this was in this was in Revit.

00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:33.839
They're like, you know, drawers and doors, model the box, tell us how many drawers and doors you want.

00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:38.720
We'll get in and then we'll add to the model and we'll show you the stuff, and then we'll do the details and do this.

00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:39.599
Just tell us what you want.

00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.279
Your spec tells us what what quality standards you're adhering to.

00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:44.799
Don't waste your time on the details.

00:33:44.799 --> 00:34:00.240
So I saw that as an opportunity for what got me excited was with the designers that they were able to spend more time for, like, hey, I have this expert on my team who's gonna help me figure out this part that I'm probably not I have an idea of what it's gonna look like.

00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.640
I have experience, I have knowledge, I'm a professional.

00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:04.960
They do this all day, every day.

00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.159
They're gonna help me figure this out, they're gonna offload that part.

00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:09.760
It's gonna be in the shop drawings.

00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.760
I just approved it with them, and I can go focus on this other design part.

00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:24.719
Or I could have been focusing on sustainability outcomes or optimizing, you know, the site or optimizing how doctors and nurses move through the space before I ever get to that.

00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:38.480
I have more time to do that stuff, which is where if I'm an architect, my highest and best use of my time is doing those things and working with my collaborative team to figure out the minutiae of these details with the real experts who are doing it.

00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:47.440
Yeah, and I think that's where you know you talk about margins and trying to, you know, so much of the traditional construction document process was about quantity, not quality, right?

00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.639
I have to get all the scope documented for somebody to budget.

00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.880
But if I can be sitting next to somebody and say, hey, we're gonna have this, oh, okay, cool, I got that.

00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:55.760
Yeah, noted.

00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.840
Yeah, well, you know, you're gonna have it in two weeks.

00:34:57.840 --> 00:34:58.480
Okay, great.

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:06.320
I don't, you know, then it's not, you know, the finger pointing of, well, I never saw it, so it wasn't in my scope, and now you got to pay for it, all that stuff.

00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:07.199
Yeah.

00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:18.239
I mean, it's such such a great story and kind of reflection that you just had because I it everything starts bouncing back in my head as you're talking through it, you know, having practice.

00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:24.400
And yeah, I mean, my, you know, first you started with it's not for everybody.

00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:34.000
And I, you know, I think I think there is opportunity, and and maybe we don't even know this because I came from a small firm in a small city before moving to Columbus.

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:36.239
And I was using Design Build.

00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:37.840
Now, was it called that?

00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:45.360
I was using definitely Design Assist, but using sub-sub, you know, a subcontractor to do, you know, MEP work alongside me.

00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.320
You were collaborating.

00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:47.760
So it was collaborating, right?

00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.920
And then it was um with those that were going to go build it, right?

00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:53.280
The team that was going to go build it.

00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.400
And that was the key for me.

00:35:54.400 --> 00:36:01.840
I fast forward, and I remember working on a project for a very large national GC in Columbus.

00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:14.559
And that is where it all started to kind of you know trigger in my head of like, wait, like we need to, we need to be using design assist a lot more, bringing these subtrades in.

00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.519
I remember bringing steel fabricators and other groups in.

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:34.400
But I I think one thing that you said is most important here is a lot of times we go into a firm and you're new into the firm, and whether it's small or large, you kind of see how things were done before.

00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:38.480
And the industry has changed.

00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:46.239
And we tend, I always say default mode, we tend to repeat specs sometimes because it's easier.

00:36:46.239 --> 00:37:02.159
And I need, you know, we're a very time poor industry, whether it's architecture or construction side, because you know, we're we have a labor um force that is not meeting the demand and getting new recruits in and attracting more people into the industry.

00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:14.480
But we tend to, oh, well, that's how, you know, we grab an old set of drawings and we just kind of follow it, and that's how we learn to design and and build things as we come through the industry.

00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:21.280
And as you just described, it's like everyone out there who's actually building it and fabricating it's like, stop.

00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:25.599
Like, like this is how we actually do it.

00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:43.679
And I, you know, since it's called activating curiosity, I always tell people like, I walked out on a job site and asked the metal framers when I was 26 or 27, like, hey, what can I do differently with this set of documents to make it be to make you more efficient?

00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:44.000
Yeah.

00:37:44.239 --> 00:38:05.119
Because I thought if they became more efficient, then their cost, one, they'd feel better as humans, but two, that might bring the cost down because ultimately I felt like we needed to get the cost more in line, and I wanted to keep the things I wanted to keep as an architect, not use the the dirty word, you know, value engineering, which has no true value.

00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:11.039
That's where I think design build brings this opportunity of like you are going through a target value design.

00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:16.159
You are, you know, progressive design, you can you can get into that as well, and how that functions.

00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:23.039
Like there's huge opportunity to learn from one another, to ask questions.

00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:35.199
But that means, Brian, then that you're you're probably seeing in and talk as you're talking with you know people out there as well, or others from from the DBIA, like that's a culture shift.

00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:42.159
It's not only a mind shift, it is a leadership from from the person leading maybe the initiative to the leaders of the companies.

00:38:42.159 --> 00:39:06.719
Like the culture shift has to come into what's called a you know psychological safety area where no questions are are considered, you know, dumb or like, hey, you I can't believe you don't know that, and utilizing yeah, you know, people's you know development as an opportunity to to downgrade them because this is about exploration then.

00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:07.440
Right.

00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.559
I I think it's also about having those experiences.

00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:15.519
And I think, you know, my you know, we we started this off with how did I get to where I'm at?

00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:33.440
I think all the different experiences that I've had going from architecture only and you know, then being in this AE firm and then seeing the construction side of it, kind of the last aspect of it that I saw, which and I don't remember if we talked about this before, was on the the industrialized construction side.

00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:42.880
One of the last cut the last there was like two projects that I worked on at Canon Design, which were amazing, they were both amazing projects and amazing learning opportunities.

00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:55.920
One was this kind of this kit of parts medical office building that we developed, which really leveraged all these prefab templated standardized components to quickly assemble medical office buildings with Kaiser Permanente.

00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:58.079
They were trying to, you know, really grow.

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:22.239
And our goal was to hit 30% efficiency, you know, to reduce our design and construction time, doors open by 30% by leveraging all of these prefab um elements, whether interior partitions, exterior walls, staircases, prefab staircases, structural systems, templated room layouts, and prototypical designs that you know they were these these assemblies instead of a traditional stick assembly.

00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:23.760
So there was a lot learned there.

00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.599
And then fast forward, we had a we had a project in Los Angeles.

00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:34.000
It was a a behavioral health center um in downtown, just out just on the edge of downtown LA.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:34.400
Yeah.

00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:42.159
Uh and there was a series of five buildings, and it was set up like a little quad campus, but there were four buildings that were exactly the same.

00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:48.719
That these were, you know, clinical, administrative, like kind of dormitory um houses.

00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:50.719
And we were the project started.

00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:52.880
It was a design build project that we were doing.

00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.760
We were the design builder as well as the architect and a couple of the engineering.

00:40:57.760 --> 00:40:59.039
I think we were just structure.

00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:04.079
Um MEP was external, and they said, Hey, we want to start using our our prefab group.

00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:08.960
We want to modularize this, but not doing it at the outset of the project.

00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:09.519
Yep.

00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:14.159
Well, while it was a great idea and the team wanted to take, hey, we have this great opportunity.

00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:16.880
I I I somehow got interjected.

00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:28.639
The the VDC guy, hey, work with will you work with our work with our new this new you know modular construction group, help start figuring out the process for how we're gonna do this.

00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:31.119
But it quickly became that was the easy part.

00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.039
The hard part was managing the conversation between what the builder wanted.

00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:43.199
There was a team of people in Lawrence, Kansas, and a fab shop that were we were getting set up to build these units, put them on a truck and ship them to LA.

00:41:43.199 --> 00:42:10.559
Understand the scope gaps of a traditional design project and having somebody in that transition from D the D D to C D phase, now building shop drawing level models of walls and components and saying, well, we have three equals, or yeah, here's the here's the you know, obviously the bathrooms were were easy to do because they were repetitive, right?

00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:13.679
You know, oh well, you know, here's well, this doesn't work and this doesn't work.

00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:28.559
And being alongside the construction team, seeing where their pain points were about a traditional delivery process of something that was going out to bid and really managing that interface was was really interesting.

00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:42.079
I think having that experience on the other side, knowing what the other team wants makes you better at your core job and being able to disseminate, hey, yeah, they're gonna need this is how we need to do this, or this doesn't work, those experiences are invaluable.

00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:42.400
Yeah.

00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:52.960
Um, so being able to have that, you know, on a design build project, having that construction team member there, those shop, those trade partners there, and saying, hey, you know better for the next time.

00:42:52.960 --> 00:43:00.480
And that's an opportunity for individuals to progress and learn, not only be successful on that project, but be more successful on the next one.

00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:00.800
Yeah.

00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:02.639
And having those conversations early.

00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.800
Like, hey, I experienced this part way through.

00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:18.079
Man, if we would have had this earlier and we could have told the architect that we can't go past 10 feet because we can't ship, we wouldn't have had all these different unit sizes and had to re you know, relay out some certain things and like it just would have been so much easier.

00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:24.880
But taking that knowledge onto the next project makes you a better designer, it makes you a better architect, engineer, builder, trade partner.

00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:25.760
Yeah.

00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:37.199
Yeah, and I think what you just described, I mean, I have been there where you know, my past, I came from prefab side, and people would want to bring it in way too late.

00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.719
Yeah, and and you and I got a chance to kind of work work on Kaiser.

00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:46.880
And I remember the first time I met with them and then flew to to LA, they were like, we're gonna flip this project to be prefab.

00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:49.039
How far along are you?

00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.159
We're we already have a contractor and the bed docs are done.

00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:52.480
Yeah.

00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.239
I'm like, that is too late.

00:43:54.239 --> 00:44:00.800
You are way past the point of changing uh a method of construction.

00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:11.840
Um, one, that you know, uh what you described and what I'm kind of talking about here is that is why I think a lot of people get this perception of innovation doesn't work, right?

00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:25.280
Like, well, I went through this project and then we utilized this solution or prefabrication or whatever it was, or well, it was too late, but did everybody recognize it?

00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:28.159
Was it maybe the wrong even delivery model?

00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:40.719
Because if you treat fabricators, you know, as a normal shop drawing process, well, this is not a product, it isn't a switch one thing out and you get something new.

00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:51.119
You're describing this opportunity of recognizing, hey, first choice begins with how can we deliver this project?

00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:55.119
What are our options available to to us as an owner?

00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:10.960
And it may, you know, or an architect sitting and talking with an owner who maybe only builds, you know, once in in their lifetime or in their business first, as you mentioned, you know, the Ohio State or a university or or a Kaiser where there's whole teams that do it.

00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:16.239
One, your first question out of the bat has to be, you know, what delivery model do we have?

00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:23.679
And I think, you know, I think a lot of people think design build only works with ground up, and I don't think that's the case.

00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:27.599
I think it can work with tenant improvement just as well.

00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.159
Yep.

00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:38.079
In fact, I think it would change the vicious cycle that I think we all end up in in commercial TIs of how the process feels exhausting for everybody.

00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:57.039
So, one, it opens up discovery of that delivery model sooner, going through collaboration, bringing in the right people into you know the design build, into the design assist, bringing the subtrades in, thinking about procurement process from a contractor.

00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:08.320
But you've alluded to it, there's a huge opportunity for innovative solutions that start to solve other issues we have, right?

00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.039
That we're struggling.

00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:24.159
Schedules are are lengthening, we're speeding up design, schedules are lengthening, we have rework, we have people that are burnt out, we have people leaving the industry, like all of those things are true.

00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:40.320
And I'm not saying this is a silver bullet, but it feels like design build collaboration is bringing it back in control of the humans to learn how to make you know, take these action steps, which is you know really what it is.

00:46:40.320 --> 00:47:07.199
It's like an action step of utilizing a delivery model, utilizing, you know, uh virtual design as a way to work with the group inside the model, um, as well as working with sub trades, specialty subs, um, manufacturers, prefab companies, and all of that area could that can get us moving to the right direction of solving some of the other issues.

00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:09.840
What do you how do you think about that?

00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:12.239
What is what other opportunities you see up?

00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.880
Yeah, I think I think the important thing is none of these ideas are a silver bullet.

00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:22.639
Standalone, there's opportunities for success, but it's when you aggregate these, right?

00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:25.679
How do you you know reimagine how your team works together?

00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:29.920
How do you how is that team procured through a different project delivery model?

00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.920
How are you going to use technology?

00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:35.280
How do you start integrating industrialized construction?

00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.199
How do you start thinking about the way we share and use information?

00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:41.199
You know, how is our contract set up?

00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:47.679
I think these are all, you know, as individual things, there's incremental success, but when you aggregate them, it's very valuable.

00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.239
You know, I look at it, you know, with some of the work that we're doing at you know, DBIA, right?

00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:53.440
We already have design build, right?

00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:54.320
We already talked about that.

00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.320
We're promoting what the best practice is.

00:47:56.320 --> 00:48:00.800
So I have the opportunity to come in and say, hey, here's all these technologies.

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:10.880
You're probably using these in just you know, disconnected ways because of the way your project's done, and you're just focused on producing construction documents and it's going out the door.

00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:15.760
But if you're on a design build project, where are you going to host your information?

00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:24.159
Now you're you're sharing information live and you're on the cloud, and your information that that latency of how you share information is no longer there.

00:48:24.159 --> 00:49:07.199
Your contract isn't one about sign this digital release form that says you can use my model, but you can't rely on it and go to the construction documents because I have a VDC project leader at the outset, understanding the scope and expectations of what the client's looking for, defining a technology integrated plan to achieve those client and project goals, um, saying how we're going to collaborate, where we're going to collaborate, what you can use the models for, who's integrating in those, how are we creating our deliverables as a team, as opposed to a bunch of individuals at the end who just mash up a set of PDFs and say, well, here's the architect's drawings that start with an A, here's the structural engineer's drawings that start with an S, and maybe they didn't look at one another's stuff.

00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:15.519
And having a conversation, hey, if we're using technology, we have some repetitious components that we're thinking about here.

00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:17.360
How can we start prefabbing those?

00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:18.800
How can we modularize those?

00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:23.519
How can we be off-site and be constructing things over here while we're building and roll it in?

00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.360
And oh, by the way, maybe the owner wants to use this information at the end of the day.

00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:29.440
We we understood that from them at the beginning.

00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:32.960
We can plan for that, embed that information and turn it over.

00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:39.599
Those are all once those all start coming together, then it snowballs and you have these bigger efficiencies.

00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:43.039
And then you learn for the next project and replicate, try to replicate that, right?

00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.280
You know, hey, we did this on the last project.

00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:50.480
We had our mechanical trade partner, and you know, we understood a heck of a lot more about how we're gonna build this.

00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:59.039
When I had my curtain wall manufacturer, and I understood all this information that I didn't know before, and I would have done it differently, and it would have cost us time and money.

00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:00.880
Right so how do we do all those?

00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:06.800
Once you start combining all of these innovations from the in from the industry that's out there, that's where you see success.

00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:07.440
Yeah.

00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:08.000
Yeah.

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:16.000
I mean, there's there's an opportunity to accelerate, you know, that that growth by you know, the exponential growth by hey, you try it once.

00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:22.960
I mean, we always tell I always try to tell everybody is like you the first your first try is never your best in anything you do in life.

00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:25.119
So it is going to take its time.

00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:29.519
We have been doing it this, you know, another way for a long time.

00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:37.119
Um, and and if you're new into the industry, like you're you're working with people who where that is true.

00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:45.199
And you may be seeing a lot of these new shiny things and and and sales reps coming in and doing CUs and everyone seeing it.

00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:59.760
And we get into you know, technology, again, fatigue or change fatigue, where we we bring a technology in and and and it didn't stick because we didn't have any sort of change management or human connection to it in an office.

00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:04.960
And then you layer on top of this, like, oh, I've got to go into a project and a different model.

00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:09.440
So they, you know, us humans, we do feel like everything's stacking on us.

00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:11.920
Like, I don't have time to learn.

00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:16.400
But you are, you know, you're talking about the opportunity for innovation there.

00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:43.840
And I I think there's also just, you know, I was having a conversation with a young designer, you know, la I think it was last year, about a project that we, you know, we were kind of talking about the challenge within the industry, and it came down to, well, the project was over budget because found out the labor crew was not available or didn't even exist, or or their labor price, they didn't have enough labor, so therefore their price went up.

00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:47.199
And it's like, wouldn't you have liked to known that ahead of time?

00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:49.280
Like before you selected it.

00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.639
Like, what if there what if there was a model that you could do that?

00:51:52.639 --> 00:52:08.239
And that's when I'm, you know, I work with young people to get them to understand is like if you get a sh if you get a chance, even on a TI or a new build or whatever it is, be curious enough to ask, like, or is there another delivery model we could look at besides this?

00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:13.599
Um but I you know I do want to see what your what your thoughts are on this.

00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:20.159
And I I know being that there's 50 states, there's 50 different rules around contract modeling.

00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:22.400
Yeah, there's a big push.

00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:32.320
I know within Ohio, and and you and I both know this, like how you know some of the hospitals were were built by the Ohio State University, right?

00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:37.440
Like, you know, alternative delirium models were being reviewed and are being reviewed.

00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:58.880
Um, so we can talk about the the private sector, but I feel like because of our infrastructure, because of a lot of the ways things are going to need to be built through public funding or other areas, like as a country, like what are what are we missing by not exploring?

00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:12.400
And I'm sure there's you know all kinds of people talking to policymakers out there in the states and things, but like there's real opportunity with our current approach to building for states to look at this differently.

00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:18.559
I mean, I think you know, some owners think their opportunity is is is the low bid, right?

00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:26.000
I got a low first cost, and then they don't realize until the end of the project that it wasn't the the overall cost.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:32.559
And I think you know, there's a lot of things that you know that perception is you know commonplace.

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:38.079
It's also you know, you it's it's the devil that you know, right?

00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:44.079
Like I know how this is gonna work, uh I know I'm gonna have these pain points, but I'm comfortable with that.

00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:45.920
I I know how to deal with it.

00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.199
I don't have time to take on a new new workflow or a new a new direction.

00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:59.280
Um and I think you know, design build is one of multiple, you know, you have CM at risk is more collaborative than design bid build.

00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.760
It's not as collaborative as design build.

00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:06.880
Um, but you're still seeing that uh that model evolve as well.

00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:07.280
Right.

00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:11.039
You know, anything more collabor everything's more collaborative than design bid build.

00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:12.559
We want the industry to go all of those.

00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:17.920
And if you you come off a design build project, take those lessons learned and apply to the next project.

00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:21.199
I mean, that's that opportunity to, you know, to build it.

00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:33.199
But I think it's, you know, it does come down, you know, to that culture change and management and you know, the the the risk side of it, which which gets people, you know, that's where people kind of tense up.

00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:39.280
And I think it's whether it's project delivery or technology, you know, that's the that's the challenge.

00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:51.360
And you know, one of the things I wanted to kind of respond to one of the things you said before about, you know, that change management on the technology side, the you know, the tech fatigue, there's so many new tools that are coming out there.

00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:58.239
And I think one of the big faults that we have is is somebody acquiring a technology and looking for a problem to solve.

00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:58.719
Yeah.

00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:04.719
Instead of identifying a problem and finding a tool that aligns to solve that.

00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:09.199
I think that's where tech fatigue has and will continue to come in.

00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.599
Um, and that's a challenge.

00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:14.559
You know, we talk about people process technology, you know.

00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:18.800
Hey, you know, Ryan comes off a project and says, Man, we're dealing with this every time.

00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:19.760
It's all these things.

00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:20.559
This is our challenge.

00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:21.519
What can we do?

00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:22.159
You know, right?

00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:26.400
Then you build a process and a framework to solve that challenge and bring in the tool to solve it.

00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:31.840
So it just goes back to the people side, like you talked about, but that that's another aspect of it as well.

00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:32.239
Yeah.

00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:37.760
Um, so people get jaded once and then they're a little they're apprehensive, hey, I don't have time to bring something else on.

00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:41.679
I just I I know I can get this done in this time frame with my old way.

00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:44.559
There may be a more efficient way, but I don't have time to do it right now.

00:55:44.880 --> 00:56:10.320
Yeah, it it's such a common thing that I hear, and I think every time I do a recording or podcast with somebody, we end up into this area of uh under, you know, what I try to help people understand is like you need to understand your own relationship with change, how you see it, so that you can then see how other people react to it.

00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:33.840
Because you know, we're we're time poor because we we are more resistant to change, maybe no more than any other humans, but we tend to try something once and then immediately think, well, that didn't work in this industry because it is so you know, we look at risk as this, it's just a huge dollar amount.

00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:43.440
But there's billions of dollars that are, you know, all the studies show, like being wasted because we're not as efficient and effective.

00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:56.079
Well, you can't try something once and be good at it, as we've talked about, but also learning to explore, you know, it's a bigger thing than solving a result of a problem, right?

00:56:56.079 --> 00:57:02.800
Like if you were only looking at the result and you don't drill into finding out like what is at the core issue, like you said.

00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:11.920
So I I thank you for sharing that because I think that is fundamentally whether it's you know, taking on design build as an opportunity, you mentioned CMR risk.

00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:39.280
There's obviously other ones that are out there in that collaborative area, but there's huge opportunity to to look at it from a perspective of a small project all the way up to at least explore and ri recognize like, hey, it may not go exactly as planned this time, but I do recognize that right now is not where I want to be.

00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:42.239
Um current state is not that comfortable.

00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:54.559
So um thank you for sharing that because I think you know you and I aligned in a lot of ways from the the you know the technology and the innovation opportunity that exists.

00:57:54.559 --> 00:58:22.719
But I think because we're this is my personal view, because we're stuck believing that we don't have time, believing that that we just don't have time to learn or try that that obstacle in our own mind, and because it's one person in a team in a company within a project team, like we're we're impacting more than those in the construction industry.

00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:42.079
We're impacting every human that is in our community, in our state, you know, within the country, because this is our like we have to solve it sort of moment because 500,000 labor forces short every year, who's gonna build it?

00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:46.559
Like we can't, you know, we can't continue to delay.

00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:52.480
We all recognize it, but we may say that's a huge issue, and I'm just one person.

00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:54.320
How can I solve it?

00:58:54.320 --> 00:59:03.519
So my question to you would be, then Brian, like what does success for the industry look like from your perspective?

00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:08.079
Like what would that what would that success be that you were like, we we've nailed it?

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:16.079
I so I mean I think you know, being able to track success goes back to being able to, you know, measure what's important, right?

00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:30.159
You know, we I I think we only tend to look at things at the end of the day or we don't have a lot of good metrics on how we do things, but from from DBIA's perspective and the perspective that I brought to it, right?

00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:32.880
We want to be able to achieve design excellence.

00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:42.400
We want to have increased quality and productivity on the job site, and we want to be able to improve the life cycle cost of the of the built environment for the owners.

00:59:42.400 --> 01:00:07.599
I think one of the things that I'm excited about and we're having the opportunity to do is, you know, with our members, you know, through many different outlets that we have, whether I'm out on you know in our regions and chapters meeting and speaking and presenting with people, or it's certainly Our words program, we're seeing benchmarks now of where people are seeing success in leveraging technology and design build.

01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:09.199
We're hitting ROIs.

01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:16.000
It's not, it's not just the anecdotal uh we had less coordination issues, right?

01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.079
Okay, everybody says that in a submission.

01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:19.360
We're seeing dollars, right?

01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:26.079
You know, we had a blog post, um, it was a food service project from Haskell.

01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:35.119
They they tracked where they went through and found they spent like $200,000 in their labor hours in the trade coordination process, and they saved two and a half million on the project.

01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:36.000
Right?

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.039
That's a huge dollar.

01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:45.840
We're seeing small, small projects, 40,000 square foot healthcare projects that are leveraging prefab because they were planned out at the beginning.

01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:46.239
Right.

01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:53.360
Um, and showing that, hey, we did this 60% faster, we saved that we saved you know 30% on materials, we saved this.

01:00:53.360 --> 01:01:07.599
Um, you know, we're starting to see all of these different opportunities for success where people are realizing these things by merging these different innovation opportunities, and it's becoming quantifiable because it's no longer, you know, success isn't, oh, we do BIM, right?

01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:14.559
You know, back in back in 05, 07, you said, hey, we, you know, our office does BIM.

01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.360
Oh, cool, you know, hey, let's check the UK.

01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:18.639
You won the contract.

01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.239
They got, you know, they got those whiz-bang new software they're using, right?

01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:22.960
That's what people say.

01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:24.880
Here's a picture of a model we made, and that was it.

01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:26.880
Now, I mean, that's table stakes, right?

01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:29.840
Everybody's that's not a differentiator.

01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:34.880
We use technology to design and construct our projects more efficiently.

01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:36.239
This is how we do it.

01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:40.960
These are the savings and opportunities that we're bringing to the projects to be able to deliver this for you.

01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:48.559
So I think for us, that's where we see success to be able to have those quantifiable metrics around those three areas at the end of the day.

01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:51.519
Um, that that's where success lies.

01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:58.480
Yeah, I I think you you know, you said something that's very intriguing to me.

01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:01.119
You said the data piece.

01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:06.480
And the you know, design builds, you know, DBIA started in the early 90s, right?

01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:16.400
Obviously, it was talked about before then, but so that's not new, but this introduction of all the technology throughout our lives is accelerating and constantly continues to accelerate.

01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:25.679
But and this is what I've seen, and I think you you you brought this up a lot of times, and this we want the data.

01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:28.000
Well, where did it how did it go last time?

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:32.159
Show us some success, show us that you've done that, show us you know that data.

01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:42.400
Well, data follows execution, and it doesn't really flush out in two months, one project, right?

01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:52.320
And with an industry that is spread all, you know, take every state, every contractor, you know, the millions of people that are in it, we're all impacting that data.

01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:59.280
Like we're we all have an opportunity to impact it as a positive or a negative of how it rolls.

01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:09.360
But this goes back to that human piece of I want us 100% clarity that this is going to go exactly as you say it's going to go.

01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:18.800
And you've you made the great point of like, hey, we're now finally getting data and able to start showing it.

01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:24.320
It doesn't mean it'll go exactly that way for you because it is other humans getting involved.

01:03:24.320 --> 01:04:00.400
But if we're able to again aligning the connecting the human to the change they're about to go through in the delivery model or new technology or a process and having some empathy in that piece, then the data will only continue to um increase our opportunity and return on investment for, as you said, the design team, you know, architects and interior designers, engineers to the construction teams, to fabricators and all of them, but ultimately also to the owner and all the occupants that are going inside of that building.

01:04:00.639 --> 01:04:04.880
So yeah, I think I think we also need to plan for that, though, right?

01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:08.559
I think the other challenge is you can't at the end of the project and say, well, how'd we do?

01:04:08.559 --> 01:04:08.880
Right.

01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:12.880
And all you really have is, you know, your budget and scope, right?

01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.159
What contributed to that?

01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:23.519
Being able to track and look and manage that at the outset to say, hey, these are the key, these are the key performance indicators that we're looking for on this project.

01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:24.480
How are we doing?

01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:30.159
It's not a it's not an end-of-the-day yes or no, it's not a pass sale type answer.

01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:38.880
You you have to approach that, you have to be strategic about it, understand how you're going to aggregate that data that you're going to analyze at the end of the day.

01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:41.199
And certainly every project's not the same, right?

01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:42.800
You know, they all have their own challenges.

01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:47.280
It's how you react and pivot and maneuver through those challenges to get to the end.

01:04:47.280 --> 01:05:00.800
That's why you want to look at things in a cumulative nature, but you got to understand what the the actions and reactions were and what the root causes of certain things were to be able to look at it critically, look at that data critically at the end of the day.

01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:01.599
Right.

01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:08.719
No, it's it's a it's a great point to add on, um, because I do, you know, as you said, it's like we didn't know how to collect it in the first place.

01:05:08.719 --> 01:05:21.599
Now it's having a plan and an action that, again, that information that you're collecting is about you getting more clarity as an individual, but also as a team to kind of move forward and and improve.

01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:25.840
So um one last question then for you before we wrap up.

01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:29.360
Um we're sitting here having this conversation, someone's listening.

01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:47.760
Like, what's some what's some action steps that you would recommend, you know, if they're interested in InDesign Build, they'd never seen it, never heard of it, which which would be, you know, probably unrealistic, but maybe have never utilized it in a contract form, as well as anything within that VDC area that that you're focusing on in innovation.

01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:48.239
Yeah.

01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:56.079
I mean, I would, you know, we just we unfortunately we just had our our annual conference, which would have been a great opportunity to attend, but go to our website, right?

01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:58.480
There's a ton of information that we have.

01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:00.159
Um, go to the bookstore.

01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:05.440
Um, we have a lot of, we have a series of of position statements and primers that you mentioned.

01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:08.480
We have three different VDC documents that are already on there.

01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:10.639
We're getting ready to start working on a fourth one.

01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:15.119
Um, but just educational materials, learn what the opportunity is.

01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:18.639
Um, there's uh, you know, how to choose a project delivery model.

01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:23.280
You know, we have one that's focused on a progressive design build and the differences.

01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:36.559
We have those that are tailored to different market segments, whether it's the commercial, you know, vertical building market, which we're talking about, or if it's transportation, aviation, water, wastewater, you know, if it's federal projects, where are all the nuances?

01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:39.360
Learn more about it, understand how it could start to apply.

01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:47.280
Talk to your owners about it, talk to your, you know, your builders, your designers that you work with, and you know, odds are they've probably done something.

01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:54.159
Find that ideal project to get engaged in and just continue to, you know, continue to push forward and learn.

01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:55.760
Well, great.

01:06:55.760 --> 01:07:02.960
I mean, I think every uh opportunity starts with a little spark of curiosity, ask those questions and explore, like you're saying.

01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:08.960
Um, and I and I do think there's there's some great information out on the DBIA website.

01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:24.880
Brian is obviously a tremendous resource and has been in a lot of your shoes uh inside firms and practicing you know architecture to his whole career path and uh to now working through um through all this with the DBIA.

01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:28.000
So I'm grateful that you were willing to spend some time.

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:31.199
I hope it wasn't um um too painful.

01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:33.440
I you are your voice is out there.

01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:37.679
I there there is a DBI podcast I know that they can listen to as well.

01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:38.239
Yep.

01:07:38.239 --> 01:08:15.199
Um uh which is another great resource and hear some of those stories, but um wanted to have the conversation because I think it is a you know, it does release an opportunity for innovation as you're describing and a lot of these areas that can get us more efficient, uh more connected as humans and a collaborative approach to delivering projects that we can all be proud of, but also feel less burnout, feel like we're solving beyond the construction of that project, something bigger for the industry.

01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:17.119
So again, thanks for your time, Brian.

01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:18.159
I really appreciate it.

01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:19.359
Thanks for having me, Ryan.

01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:20.479
I enjoyed the conversation.

01:08:20.479 --> 01:08:21.680
Yeah, absolutely.

01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:27.199
And so everyone knows uh what where is the next conference or the national conference next year?

01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:31.680
The uh the annual national conference will be in Cleveland, Ohio, the first week of November.

01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:32.399
That's right.

01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:34.800
I'm looking forward to it being from Cleveland.

01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:35.920
Um, so that's great.

01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:37.279
All right, Brian, we'll talk to you soon.

01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:38.159
Thanks.

01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:38.640
Thanks.

01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:39.279
Bye.

01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:49.119
So that is our episode with Brian Scripack with the DBIA, Design Build Institute of America.

01:08:49.119 --> 01:09:15.760
Brian has a tremendous amount of experience around a lot of different areas within the construction industry, starting within architecture, working within um, you know, from a BIM modeling standpoint and transferring over now uh with the DBIA and focus on kind of that technology and innovation piece and how that relates to a construction delivery model.

01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:32.479
And I am passionate about this conversation because it relates to a lot of the things that I have done throughout my career and past, and where I've seen huge opportunity to gain that efficiency that Brian was talking about.

01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:42.880
And I know we talked about it briefly in the conversation, but efficiency doesn't mean that you have to just get everything out faster all the time.

01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:50.479
It literally means that you're doing the most important things that create the greatest results for all parties involved.

01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:59.279
And there's an opportunity through these delivery models and the DBIA or design build is not it's not an alternative anymore.

01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:14.560
It is 47 to 50 percent of all contracts are now kind of heading towards that collaborative approach, but there's still a lot of groups and people who do not utilize it or don't question it or don't think about it.

01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:22.640
And by not doing that, it's not allowing us to evolve and test some of these innovations that are coming at us.

01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:25.119
Brian also gave the warning sign.

01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:34.880
Don't you don't have to just bring something in because you want to, and you don't really have that problem just because somebody's trying to sell you a software or solution.

01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:50.640
You have to step back in your business and you have to understand what it is you're you you really want to achieve from a business standpoint, whatever wherever you exist in the construction industry.

01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:55.439
And you look at these softwares as the right tool that you would utilize.

01:10:55.439 --> 01:11:00.000
Does it solve more than one problem for more than one person, more than one time?

01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:10.079
And then you have to build an implementation process and a strategy around it, and have all of those things that Brian was kind of alluding to in the conversation.

01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:17.279
So I'm sure we'll be talking with others around similar conversations coming up in future podcasts.

01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:19.439
But I hope you all enjoyed it.

01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:26.399
I hope you follow up by looking on the Design Build website, downloading some of that information.

01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:34.880
If you are part of the organization and membership, go out, spread it around, talk to other people and help them understand it.

01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:42.720
If it is new terrifying territory for them, then understand you have to have the empathy to help them get through that as well.

01:11:42.720 --> 01:12:05.760
But if we all start to ask different questions, spark that curiosity, then we can begin to solve some of the larger challenges that we're all seeing and facing and get out of this time poor area and into an efficient, rich zone where we are actually all feeling like we are driving towards something better.

01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:45.439
So until next time, I hope you all stay well and I hope you all continue to activate curiosity within yourself and within a activate curiosity with practical curiosity, so next time deep leading with curiosity.