Feb. 10, 2026

Reducing Friction in Construction Decision-Making Without Replacing Expertise

Reducing Friction in Construction Decision-Making Without Replacing Expertise

Summary In this episode of Activating Curiosity, Ryan Ware and UpCodes Co-Founder and CEO Scott Reynolds explore how technology and AI are transforming change management and leadership in construction projects by reducing friction in decision-making processes without replacing professional expertise. They examine the impact of digital construction tools and systems in overcoming common construction industry challenges, such as time scarcity, information silos, and regulatory complexity, all ...

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Construction InnovationMindset ShiftAI In ConstructionBuilding CodesConstruction Technology

Summary

In this episode of Activating Curiosity, Ryan Ware and UpCodes Co-Founder and CEO Scott Reynolds explore how technology and AI are transforming change management and leadership in construction projects by reducing friction in decision-making processes without replacing professional expertise. They examine the impact of digital construction tools and systems in overcoming common construction industry challenges, such as time scarcity, information silos, and regulatory complexity, all while supporting construction leadership development and fostering resilience across teams.

Listeners will gain insights into how modern digital workflows and building code compliance platforms function as decision infrastructure, helping architects, engineers, and builders make more informed choices under pressure and navigate industry change effectively. This conversation is ideal for AEC professionals seeking to elevate their leadership in construction change management and innovation.

Scott Reynolds also shares his unique perspective from a background in architecture and extensive experience in global cities, emphasizing the importance of bridging expertise with technology to enhance construction business leadership and project outcomes. Tune in to discover strategies for leading through change and leveraging AI in construction management within an evolving built environment.

Chapters


03:46 From Architecture Practice to Technology Problem-Solving
09:29 The Hidden Friction in Construction Decision-Making
15:21 Building Systems That Support Choice, Not Defaults
26:46 How AI Can Reduce Friction Without Replacing Expertise
39:20 Product Selection, Manufacturers, and Real-World Constraints
57:36 Defining Success in a Technology-Enabled Built Environment

Guest

Scott Reynolds is the CEO and co-founder of UpCodes, the developer of a comprehensive compliance and product research platform that makes code libraries more accessible. Scott’s background in architecture and extensive experience working in some of the largest cities in the world, including New York City and Hong Kong at world-class architecture firms, provides him with a unique perspective into the challenges AEC professionals face when accessing building codes and ensuring compliance. 

https://up.codes/

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WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.040
Can we build dedicated and structured tools to help designers, to help builders, to help owners just understand what are the codes?

00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:21.199
Bring those together into one place, start to hyperlink them together, make it easy to read, access, copy, paste, print, talk to the AHJ, talk to the owner or developer, talk to the consultants, and really just facilitate this exchange of conversation.

00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:26.640
Just trying to get a foundation where everyone's operating from the same information.

00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:32.399
We're not struggling to stitch together this patchwork of regulation and updates and amendments.

00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:38.240
Just simplify that layer so that the more interesting conversation can happen on top of that.

00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:17.359
And this conversation today, we're going to focus a lot on technology that we haven't had a chance to talk about on the episodes.

00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:31.359
A new kind of way to look at technology and with someone who has spent a career similar to mine, background-wise, and finding a way to shift into it to solve some problems for all of you that are out in the industry.

00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:33.920
So today I have with me Scott Reynolds.

00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:37.359
He is the co-founder and CEO of Upcodes.

00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:38.480
Hey Scott, how are you doing?

00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:39.439
Doing doing well.

00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:40.719
Thanks for having me on the show, Ryan.

00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:42.719
Looking forward to this conversation.

00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:45.840
Yeah, I appreciate you being willing to talk.

00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.719
I know I've been following yourself as well as your brother.

00:01:50.719 --> 00:02:02.799
Um, when I was out in California and a lot of the work that you were doing, it sort of intrigued me because I was like, there's got to be a way to address how we access building codes at the time.

00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:09.039
And I think that's when I started spotting uh you and started communicating with you as well as your brother.

00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:13.759
So I appreciate this conversation and a lot of the work that you're doing.

00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:17.439
Um, but before we dive into the episode, why don't you tell a little bit about yourself?

00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:18.639
Yeah, absolutely.

00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:33.680
So I studied architecture at Syracuse University, uh, went through the five-year program there, pretty quickly went abroad and worked in Hong Kong for a couple of years, worked on international projects, typically like mixed-use projects.

00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:43.280
Um and then after a couple of years, moved back to the US or working on uh domestic projects, went to the New York City office.

00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:48.400
So my background very much comes from the architecture side from the industry side.

00:02:48.400 --> 00:03:13.439
Um, and a lot of what we work on today is a reflection of a lot of the kind of inefficiencies and and challenges I faced, you know, as as an architect, but but also all my former colleagues and and peers and talking to them and and really um kind of you know going through the frustrations of initially uh of going through code research and applying the code and managing the code through through the whole process.

00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.039
So that's my background.

00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:16.400
That's kind of where we've started.

00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:22.479
The products changed pretty substantially over time, but that's certainly like where where we got our roots.

00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:29.039
Yeah, I well, congrats on being in Hong Kong for a little while and and coming from New York.

00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:33.199
The opportunity to kind of work abroad probably opened your eyes and in different ways as well.

00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.039
And I'm sure you'll kind of get into that.

00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:52.319
I know that you talked about a lot of those changes um that are going on with the company, but but you know, an area to really kind of focus on uh for the conversation is there's something that you said, like, hey, there's inefficiencies in a lot of the ways that we're doing some of these things.

00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.120
And you spotted something right off the bat and said, you know what, I need to figure out how to fix this.

00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:02.240
And you started having conversations with other people about how you might be able to address that.

00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:07.919
So uh tell us a little bit about what that initial problem was that you were like, you know what?

00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.879
I I think I really need to try to figure this out.

00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:13.840
Yeah, well, going back to Hong Kong.

00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:19.600
So, you know, it's one of my first jobs um working in in architecture firms.

00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:27.759
And when you're in academia, you're you're doing so much design work and you're you're you have the kind of these like pure projects that are that are unconstrained.

00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:32.959
And you can, you know, no, no budgets, no, no like codes, no regulations to follow, and all those things.

00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.360
So it's just totally right, totally free form.

00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:42.399
You you you join your first job, you get it to practice, and you realize you really don't know how to put a building together.

00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:51.040
You don't know the codes, you don't know the regulations, you don't know how to work it to it to a budget, to a client's brief, to the to the you work with consultants, work with the government.

00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.839
There's all these uh challenges.

00:04:53.839 --> 00:05:04.240
Now I had done internships in in in New York, in like in, you know, working on US projects, but my first real full-time job was in Hong Kong.

00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:10.000
And we were going through these challenges, and a lot of it was the regulation and and and the codes.

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.000
The projects were in mainland China.

00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.519
Um, so you know, obviously the codes are not in English.

00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.079
And I thought that was the biggest hurdle.

00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:30.959
I I thought, you know, we were passing information back to, I was at an Australian firm first, so passing information back to like Sydney and Melbourne design teams, um, you know, dealing with the challenges there.

00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:36.399
Then when I transferred to a US firm, uh, design team was based in New York City.

00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.639
So transferring back all these regulations there and huge amount of inefficiency.

00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.560
Um, just to understand like what are the parameters, what are we trying to design to?

00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:50.480
I kind of attached those difficulties to the fact that the codes were not in English.

00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.360
It is a different language, it's hard to get through.

00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:58.240
Um, so amongst other reasons, I, you know, with that firm, I transferred to the New York City office.

00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:05.279
But I was really looking forward to, you know, what I thought would be more simple, the kind of world of regulations.

00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:08.800
But lo and behold, the US is is pre-advanced in the regulations.

00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:14.000
And yes, they're written in English, but they're extremely dense, they're extremely hard to work with.

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.319
And there was no modern tools to do it.

00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:19.279
Um, we were working with physical books in our office.

00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:29.519
We had like binders where there's like the code updates and and and they had to insert, then you're trying to navigate through amendments to the codes based on different jurisdictions.

00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:40.319
And it seemed like such an analog, uh uh kind of like very high friction workflow that really didn't need to exist.

00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:44.480
Um, so at that time I you know, talked to my brother.

00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:50.399
He was at another um kind of like a technology startup at the time, planning grid.

00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:54.000
And I was asking him, like, can we build software around this?

00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.920
Can we can we build dedicated and structured tools to help designers, to help builders, to help owners just understand what are the codes?

00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:19.199
Bring those together into one place, start to hyperlink them together, make it easy to read, access, copy, paste, print, you know, talk to the AHJ, talk to the owner, developer, uh, talk to the to the consultants and really just facilitate this exchange of conversation.

00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:31.199
Just trying to get a a foundation where everyone's operating from the same information, we're not struggling to stitch together this patchwork of regulation and updates and amendments.

00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:37.279
Just set just simplify that layer so that the more interesting conversation can happen on top of that.

00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:43.680
So that's really like kind of the the the pain point that we were trying to solve at the at the time.

00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:44.720
Yeah.

00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:45.199
Yeah.

00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:56.000
So it sparked, you know, it sparked this area for you of like, hey, you know, I gotta go grab a binder, and maybe we only have a couple, and I'm trying to find it on somebody's desk.

00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.160
I, man, I can remember pages falling out.

00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:05.439
You know, they got you got the little sticker you got to put on it to make sure it stays in the binder.

00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:17.120
So yeah, it felt inefficient walking around an office being like, well, who has this, who has the the code book um for you to find when it was, you know, that's how we sort of done it.

00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:27.600
I know today I, you know, you can find building codes sort of online, but it I go back to when I first started and thinking about, you know, building codes.

00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.639
And I I started my career in in Charlotte, North Carolina.

00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:38.080
And at that time, they were releasing um was uh I think it was called IBC, International Building Code.

00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:43.679
It was supposed to stop all of the state codes, essentially, right?

00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:47.120
It was supposed to be this uniform building code kind of IBC.

00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:52.000
And then we ended up with every state rewriting their own building code.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:11.919
So as you stated, it's like when you come out of university and you start to practice, and part of your job is to understand fire and life safety and get to a building code and what all the different materials are and and how that's going to impact everyone, like it shouldn't be difficult.

00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:12.639
Right?

00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:16.000
It shouldn't, like, hey, that's an ethical thing.

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:16.879
It's a moral thing.

00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.240
Like you've got to figure it out.

00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:33.039
But if it's hindering you to accomplish your your task and get it done efficiently, um, all of those things, like that drives down net profit, like all the things just keep burning hours and create frustration.

00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:38.720
So you spotted something I think that hits a lot of a lot of us as we started in this journey.

00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:48.799
Um so you so you talk to your brother and you said, okay, like there's gotta be, there's gotta be a way to do this in a digital format.

00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:55.120
So talk about some of those kind of early days when you first started exploring this.

00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.799
Like, hey, was there was there hesitancy?

00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.759
Were you getting feedback from other people who were like, yeah, this is a problem I really have?

00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:09.120
Like, how did you really stretch that lens into like this is how we're going to attack it?

00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:11.600
These are the areas that are the primary focus.

00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:20.159
Yeah, and I I think at the time we we didn't realize how pervasive that issue was and probably continues to be.

00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:25.519
So the initial part was was just starting with some iteration of the product.

00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.759
And it was very crude, it was very simple.

00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:38.399
I think at the time it was uh I think there was a few codes on it, but we were really focused on like New York City at the time that expanded to California and it eventually would get we'd become statewide or uh countrywide.

00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:42.960
What one of the common themes, even to this day, is you start pulling on a thread.

00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:47.120
There's a pain point, there's a friction point or inefficiency in the industry.

00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:56.080
And you start trying to solve and and build software around it, and and you start to talk to a lot of the community and um and and folks in the industry.

00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:03.279
But when you start pulling on that conversation thread, it it just so many more pain points come up more and more and more.

00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:15.519
Um, for instance, like I think we started with the building and accessibility code, and then you know, people are saying, well, we need the fire code, we need the electrical code, we need all these other codes that that are um that you know that are referenced.

00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:25.360
So starting to bring all these together as like, well, we need better ways to filter, we need to search, we need to project manage, we need to do collaboration around it.

00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:39.440
So it's the start point looks a lot different than where you end up, but I think once you start, you start pulling on that thread and it just it just the the amount of uh uh feedback and and user requests is is pretty substantial.

00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:46.159
But I I will say like the community grew pretty pretty quickly from from the early days.

00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.960
And the larger the community, just the more voices and the more requests you're gonna have.

00:11:50.960 --> 00:12:03.840
Um so just an interesting theme is is how do you think uh listen to and keep your finger on the pulse of what people care about, where the use cases are so diverse.

00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:21.759
You might have a homeowner who who you know cares about a deck, let's say on their on their home, or maybe it's an architect working on multifamily residential, or an architect working on you know large-scale commercial projects, or maybe it's a GC, or maybe it's a subcontractor, or the building department, the fire department.

00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:26.480
They all engage and interact with codes in very, very different ways.

00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.759
And as a result, the user requests will be very, very different.

00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.120
Like, hey, can we can you think about solving this pain point?

00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:42.720
And it's it's been one of the really probably one of the most challenging things for us is you know, when you have a you know a finite amount of resources, where do you spend those resources?

00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:52.720
Which which friction points do you do you do you do you work on today and which ones do you, you know, uh uh kind of deprioritize to to to tomorrow or like or or next year?

00:12:52.720 --> 00:13:00.320
I think that's the the trickiest thing is just the the constant you know feedback and all these requests that you that you get.

00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:01.440
Right.

00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:10.080
So when you were doing that, was there you know, more of a target audience uh for lack of a better term there?

00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:12.960
You mentioned like homeowners to the architects.

00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:18.639
So when you first started, there was an MVP that you must have put in place based off some of those initials.

00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:24.000
That's when you began getting this feedback that was, like you said, a thread.

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:30.480
But you started to get to a deeper root problem because of the feedback.

00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:36.799
You're starting to, you know, maybe people are responding to that thing that's hot topic for them at that moment, like you said.

00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:50.080
I think that could throw initial software companies off a lot, is that, you know, do you go so far off of your targeted goal in what you set out to do?

00:13:50.080 --> 00:14:08.559
So I appreciate you kind of saying, hey, because that was part of that conversation of an obstacle, like those obstacles might be coming up of like a lot of requests coming in from a lot of directions that aren't aligned with the exact direction that we were planning to go.

00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:14.399
But it started to open up this curtain of like, hey, this seems to be a repetitive theme.

00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:18.000
This seems to be a problem within the industry or inefficiency.

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.639
So you were starting to see some of those things.

00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:31.279
Was that was the feedback and the ability to like address those, you know, everything is time is of the essence in this industry.

00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:43.440
So did that become like an obstacle for people to go, like, I don't know, um, be slow to adopt this or slow to kind of see it as an opportunity to pull it into their firms and their use?

00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:53.200
Well, not to go down a rabbit hole here, but just to go back to what you mentioned about the the target audience or like the target market and and and you know being being focused.

00:14:53.200 --> 00:15:13.440
I think for us, what made it so much more challenging is is that if we think about our underlying goal, it was just and it continues to be just make the codes accessible, make them friendly, make make allow anybody who wants to understand what the codes are, uh, to get in there and and understand and and work with the codes.

00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.240
That would lead to more um you know, or safer buildings, more compliant communities and more resilient communities.

00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.639
And the codes are always changing and evolving.

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.000
And um, you know, you look at LA fires and things like that, like how like how do we make more resilient communities?

00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:34.639
And I think that is from no matter who you are, making the codes as accessible as possible and and easy to work with.

00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:46.320
But when you have a uh a goal that broad, I would say, it doesn't give you the ability to say, okay, we're just gonna focus on say like single family residential.

00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.600
Like you can't do that because then you'd be turning your back on everybody else.

00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:59.679
And and if the mission is just to like get all these codes out there and help people through it, it's it is a delicate balance because you know, we want to help the architects as much as possible.

00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:08.080
But we want to hope help that homeowner who's trying to do a deck extension or understand like how to fire uh fireproof um uh their their home.

00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.600
But we want to help the GC and we want to help the the trades.

00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.720
Um so so that's where it comes so difficult.

00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:23.360
And you know, I think in a way in a in a in a different universe, like if we were just focused on one segment, it would make the roadmap a lot easier and a lot more clear.

00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:32.799
Um, but the horizontal nature, like the breadth of what we want to tackle, it makes that I would say substantially more challenging.

00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:36.080
But I think it like that is what's motivating to us.

00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.519
I think that's like a lot of the team comes from from the industry.

00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:46.639
They're former architects, for you know, they used to be engineers or working in government departments, in addition to a lot of like, you know, from the technology side.

00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.399
But like that is motivating to to the team, just getting getting the codes out there.

00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.639
But I will say it makes yeah, it does make the job a lot, uh, a lot harder.

00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:00.559
Well, I I mean I appreciate you sharing that because I think that is, yeah, as a business model, right?

00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:12.960
Like it's figuring that out and trying to to pull that into what's the most effective use, not only of our time, but our funding and what we have, you know, available to us to put this together.

00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:30.880
But, you know, like you said, it's almost not impossible, but very difficult to start to separate them when, you know, yes, there's residential codes and yes, there's building codes, but people sometimes cross different lines and how they practice or build.

00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:36.720
So creating that database, one, you said, let's make it accessible.

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:44.000
Because right now, the way we've all kind of started in our professions, like it wasn't as accessible.

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.599
So you started in New York, then you went to California.

00:17:47.599 --> 00:18:07.680
Were you seeing certain states say, you know, or other, you know, certain states be more receptive, whether it's the state itself or just the individuals within it, in order to get this to be beyond, you know, just a local jurisdiction to an entire state, to getting in into a region and expanding it.

00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:14.720
Um, like, did you find certain states being more adaptable to it and the people within it?

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.960
Or, or was everyone just like, hey, like I gotta have this?

00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.960
It's this is this has been something I've been wanting for a long time.

00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.119
Yeah, it's it's really interesting.

00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:33.200
I I think the especially the fire departments and the building departments and planning departments, the tool itself is something I think they've wanted for a long time.

00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:38.559
And I would now I I can't say like for everyone, it was really fast adoption.

00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:51.279
Cause there, you know, there there are people that for 20 or 30 years they've used physical books and there's a certain workflow to that where you, you know, dog ear and and notes in the margins and and posts and notes, and you know, uh you know there's that whole workflow.

00:18:51.279 --> 00:19:09.279
And um so but I would say the because a lot of these government agencies are so deep in the code, and maybe they're an inspector and they're they're on site and they have like you know, like 20 pounds of of of books in their in the trunk and they're lugging around these these these code books.

00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:17.839
And if you can just pull up up-to-date amended codes for that jurisdiction on your phone or your tablet, it it just makes their life a lot easier.

00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:25.680
Um so I will say um the adoption within there has been quite smooth.

00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.480
And we work with departments across the the country.

00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:35.119
I I think where it's really interesting is the the amendment uh authoring process.

00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:45.119
So like you're mentioned before the different states, you know, like while while we were supposed to have this unified singular code that could be across the country, like that's not where we've netted out.

00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:53.920
Um, you know, for some time it seemed like that's where we're headed, but states are just creasing more and more amendments and modifications to to that code.

00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:59.759
Now that amendment process will actually lend a lot of our QA, QC.

00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:06.960
Tools, technology, that the team to vet the amendments and send it back to the departments.

00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:20.799
So if a department has started to author amendments and maybe they've released drafts or they've they've released like in advance upcoming amendments, our our team and our processes will flag potential issues.

00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:28.240
Those could be like grammatical spelling, numbering, uh inconsistencies, duplicate uh sections of code.

00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:34.000
Like there's a there's a large variety of, you know, unfortunately errors, it's a human process, it it happens, right?

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.000
That that will come from those agencies.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.160
And we'll send, we'll send back like feedback.

00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:43.279
We're like, hey, here's, you know, kind of take it or leave it, but here's like a list of things you might want to consider.

00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:47.599
I think the reaction to that, that's where we see a lot of variability.

00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:53.200
On one hand, some agencies are fantastic to work with, and we'll send that back.

00:20:53.200 --> 00:21:06.400
And and it's it's very much like um, like I think it think of it more like a partnership where we can lend our resources to help, you know, help in that that process and and and they can benefit from that and incorporate that.

00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:30.400
Uh on the other hand, uh, or the other side of the spectrum, we just see some of the opposite where they're not, and I don't know if this comes down to an individual level, like maybe more work on someone's desk, but like, you know, if we send them back a dot a document and it says like here is like 35, you know, things you might want to look at in in that draft amendments or like maybe even amendments that are that are live, but we we think you know you ought to take a look at.

00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.039
Um, some people don't react well to that.

00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:41.599
I don't know if they want to turn a blind eye to to to trying to like get you know parse and make these as as clean as possible, these these changes and amendments.

00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.119
But uh that that's where we see a lot of variation, I would say.

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:46.160
Yeah.

00:21:46.160 --> 00:22:03.599
Well, it it seems like it's it's that human nature for some of like, yeah, I thought this was off my desk, and who are you to maybe tell us we're wrong, or you know, put pick any emotion that kind of comes out of it.

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.759
Um who knows how that individual is feeling.

00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:18.720
So there it sounds like there has been acceptance, maybe in an open-minded side of things where they're you know they're open-minded about it, they see a real opportunity with it.

00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:23.519
They they know in the end that it is about life safety, right?

00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.160
It is about protecting humans and all of that.

00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:31.920
So we need to make this accessible to everybody we need to make sure that that it's correct.

00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:40.000
You know, I mean, that's the whole point of going through a code review is that, yeah, architects expect a correction letter, you know, that's going to come back.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:46.720
And when it, you know, a clean one comes back, it feels like a huge, huge victory because you don't want to fall back in the line.

00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:59.200
So so Scott, I know that you, you know, you've mentioned before, you guys have sort of expanded beyond that that initial sort of approach with with the building codes.

00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:07.279
Um, what else are you, you know, investing your time in and starting to look at as far as problem solving?

00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:12.960
And like you said, it's very diverse and there's a lot of feedback that are coming into play.

00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:16.480
But like, what are some of those other things that have really caught your interest?

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:22.640
And you're like, yeah, we we see this as uh adjacent to what we're doing, but it's all tied, right?

00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.240
But it is another way of getting some of those efficiencies taken care of.

00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.039
Yeah.

00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:34.640
And and I do I do want to mention one quick thing in in terms of you know the code and the changes and the the government officials.

00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:40.799
We changed uh on average over 12,000 sections of code every month.

00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:49.200
So across the country, when you look at all the different jurisdictions, it's over 12,000 sections of code will be changed on average.

00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.000
And sometimes that goes up to like 18,000 a month.

00:23:52.000 --> 00:24:03.200
There's 40 people who just research, talk to HJs, um go through that whole process of incorporating and studying and QAing and uh all those changes.

00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:08.079
We were taking a look at 2025, they spent over 55,000 hours doing that.

00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:11.599
And you think about a, let's say, like a local AHJ.

00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.599
They might have, you know, a handful of people on staff who are really busy.

00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.960
They have just a pile of applications for on on the permitting side and maybe they have inspections to do.

00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:26.000
They they don't have 55,000 hours to to research and do all this.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:38.079
Um I you know, I I think uh in a way, just just having that that free and open access and like we we can take that a lot of that work on ourselves and then give it out to the community for free.

00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:40.400
Like they don't have to do that in in the department.

00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:46.319
And and and then the architect doesn't have to spend all their time you know researching and cobbling that together.

00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.880
So I just wanted to yeah, just touch on that quickly.

00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:55.039
But to the to the second part of of your comment, you know, where where have we expanded?

00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:05.519
I think the core competency of the team is is aggregating very fragmented resources and then building streamlined workflows just to make that a lot easier.

00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:14.319
There were a lot of adjacent, or continue to be a lot of adjacent workflows to codes that you know have similar fragmentation and kind of disjointed workflows.

00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:19.599
One of them was uh assemblies, so things like UL assemblies or GA assemblies.

00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:25.359
Another one was building products and materials, and then more recently specifications.

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:29.839
But all of those have a degree of fragmentation.

00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:34.880
So you have to go out and stitch together a lot of different resources, pull it together.

00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:38.079
But interestingly, they all relate to one another.

00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:56.480
So the specifications highly dependent on the codes, like what is what is applicable and your certifications, the assemblies, or the products themselves, of course, and like what variants have been approved for a jurisdiction, what's available, what hits the performance criteria.

00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:04.400
Um, and then if you're looking at um, yeah, say like building products, like going through and does that match the specification?

00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.119
Does it match what's available in your jurisdiction?

00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:15.119
So there's a lot of these interdependencies that I think our team, you know, has has cut our teeth for many years doing in the codes.

00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.640
Now we're just kind of scaling that up to a lot more workflows.

00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.880
Yeah, I mean, they are so adjacent or intertwined.

00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:27.759
Like you can't, you know, you can't separate the building code, like you said, from the specification.

00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:36.240
And if you got to get three equals, you got to go find, you know, product manufacturers or or you know, building materials that all are in line with that.

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.319
And you so you're going somewhere else, you're taking that step in another direction.

00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:47.519
And for those who, you know, want to know how old I am, I was going to a library to grab the suites catalog, you know, because the internet was new.

00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:54.319
So like now you now you can research things at at a deeper level, you know, on the internet.

00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:11.839
And, you know, there is proprietary specs that people want to go grab, but there is a lot of time spent trying to marry those things together to know like we this is something I want because aesthetically it's exactly in line with the design intent.

00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:20.559
But, you know, hey, three products over here match it, and the fourth one I want doesn't work within the code for some reason.

00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:23.359
Um, you know, whatever, whatever that reason is.

00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:49.839
So so you're starting to deep dive into this, you know, platforms to, you know, they do their initial building code review, and now they're having, like you said, an aggregated form of data to start to align with, I'm assuming, some criteria that they're setting into there to go be able to search material, find out more information, get those classification or certification information.

00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.039
Is that what how I'm understanding exactly.

00:27:53.279 --> 00:28:00.559
Amongst other things too, like like you're saying, like aesthetic quality, performance data, certifications, like like EPDs.

00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:09.440
Um but to your point, like it could be really hard to go out and find like three equals, for instance.

00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:17.920
Um the just the amount of performance data you have to like look through, what actually can it can match and and and fit in here.

00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:26.319
Um yeah, is is is just um, you know, we've seen it with our users talking to the users, but it can be quite uh quite quite a challenge.

00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:41.839
And I I think the the the real shame is when a manufacturer a new manufacturer has come out with a new product and maybe it's more uh environmentally friendly, maybe it has better performance, maybe it's a better cost, lower embodied carbon.

00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:50.480
But the designer will not get there and realize they could actually choose that because they just simply don't know about it, or they couldn't parse the documentation.

00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:55.920
And the community, when we've talked to to folks on, on the site, they've expressed exactly that.

00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:06.559
They're like, I I think this product would have worked, but I just do not have time to spend hours to research through the relatively dense documentation and see if this works.

00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:10.160
But it seems like it should work, but I just I don't have the time to do that.

00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:16.079
I'm gonna fall back on the product we used two years ago because we spec'd it, we got the spec ready to go.

00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:20.000
We, you know, we know it meets the rec the bear requirements.

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.440
And I think that's really a shame.

00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.359
Like everyone loses in that situation.

00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:28.079
The owner, developer loses because they don't, they didn't get the best possible product.

00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:34.960
The manufacturer loses because they couldn't, you know, they spent all this time developing this great new product that they can't now sell.

00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:43.279
Um, and then the environment loses too, because now you have a product in a building that is not performing to the same extent that another product would have.

00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:52.960
Yeah, I mean you're starting to you're starting to answer even the next question that I had, which is like, uh, why is it so important for us to really kind of resolve this?

00:29:52.960 --> 00:30:01.680
And and as you're getting into it, it's we are very time poor as an industry.

00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:08.000
And we end up, as you just described, going back to default mode.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.640
We just grab the tried and the true that worked in the last situation.

00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:22.799
Now, current situation may not be the same for that product that you specified or that solution that you specified two years ago, but you don't have time to research the new piece.

00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:35.039
So as you're describing it, I hear a huge opportunity, one within jurisdictions of like, we don't have enough codes and plans examiners in jurisdictions now.

00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:37.440
And there are no, there's no Calvary coming.

00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:43.279
There's no, there's we're not filling, and there are recruitments for those areas aren't that high.

00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:56.079
Yes, there's other ways that we're looking to sort of resolve that, but by as you're addressing it, finding ways to utilize technology that speed up our research process, right?

00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:14.480
This is what we're all talking about with AI, to aggregate that data in a way that allows us to actually be the one who makes the choice of the solution that we wanted to use, not punting on it because, oh, I don't have time to research it.

00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:16.960
So you're right, everyone's losing.

00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:38.559
So to me, I mean, I'm sure this is why you got into it, but like there's a huge opportunity to solve like what you're doing, solve some of these problems, to give back more time, to design the way we want to without spending a lot of time researching and finding out, like, hey, this didn't, it doesn't work.

00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.440
And I can't really apply it to the project.

00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:53.599
So, I mean, I'm I'm assuming your your answer to this is yes and more, but like from your viewpoint and and and your team, like what makes this so important to solve for the industry?

00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:57.839
Yeah, and and I I I really like your point about the Calvary is not coming.

00:31:57.839 --> 00:31:59.440
And and it's it's so true.

00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:12.960
It's it, you know, the uh plan reviewers and and government and um agencies are short-staffed, and there's no plan to bring to double their staff, like that's not coming in the next couple of years or foreseeable future.

00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:18.720
And then on a similar way, in in in architecture, we're time constrained, like you said.

00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:27.920
And we like right now, there could be a lot more work, like a lot more projects would benefit from architects looking at them.

00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:44.000
And I think the kind of this the resource scarcity, whether it's like, you know, money or or time, um, can push people to not giving architects a chance to make the best possible products, or even like even consider that project.

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:56.319
Like maybe, you know, maybe it goes to like a uh a builder that that is doing cookie cutter developments and it would, you know, very little, I'd say design aesthetic, but also performance research coming from the architect.

00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:58.720
Like we are we are resource constrained.

00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:19.599
We just we need way more the uh I want to say more way more architecture, but if you know what I mean, like like buildings need to be considered by architects to a far greater extent than they are today, because architects do a very, very uh uh beneficial good for the the building itself, but also the community and then also the the the climate.

00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:24.799
But I I think to your point, like we often don't have the choice.

00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:35.440
Like we we just don't have the time to figure out what are the three best choices, and then to me, do the most interesting thing, which is decide amongst the three and apply that to the project and balance out all those factors.

00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:39.920
But I do think AI can can really or can help get us, can help push.

00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:52.160
I don't know if it's like the batch bullet necessarily, but it can certainly help in terms of like aggregating that data, queuing up those decisions for you and doing a lot of that busy legwork that you just don't have time for.

00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.279
And like can, and that's exactly what we're building towards.

00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:57.759
Can we queue up those three options to you?

00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:04.720
Give you an analysis, say like here's the highlights, here, here's the couple of reasons, you know, the the pros, the cons of each one.

00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:06.480
And you know, kind of good luck.

00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.119
But like, but at least a lot of that work is done, and like here you go.

00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:10.880
Like we we queued it up for you.

00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:17.440
Um, and now you at least you get to make that decision, which I think is the most interesting part of the job.

00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:18.239
Yeah.

00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:21.920
I it it, I mean, that's why I wanted to be an architect, right?

00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:26.719
It was uh to make the choices and get the design intent the way I wanted.

00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:33.280
And it was not to pass on something because I don't have time because everyone's rushing me through the design.

00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:51.280
And I, you know, my personal opinion is like we're not looking at how we're building things, you know, from a methodology standpoint sometimes that is also limiting the way that we get to select some of the solutions that we want to match our design intent.

00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.199
And we just give up on those things.

00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:57.119
We we and I always say, like, well, then who's making the choice, right?

00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:09.599
Like if we want to make the choice as humans, then who's making it if we're just going to allow our poor time industry to just be like, well, I'm just gonna pass on it because I don't.

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:14.880
And AI isn't a silver bolder magic bullet, like you said.

00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:31.199
It I see it as, you know, instead of me needing to go pick up a sweets catalog back in the day, it arrives at my desk with it knows, like, hey, here's what you're looking for, here's all the potential manufacturers.

00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:37.920
And I might when I say a sweets catalog, it was a you know, wasn't a binder, it was a hard-backed book.

00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:46.320
And if a company, like you said, came out with a new solution, it was not showing up into that catalog unless we bought new catalogs.

00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:51.119
So the opportunity, you know, Suites has online.

00:35:51.119 --> 00:36:02.320
I think there's fourspecs.com, but not every manufacturer like ends up in the right bucket, and it's not really telling you what you need from a building code standpoint.

00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:08.000
There's still more uh research and there's a lot of work that has to go into that.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:24.719
So I do see this as a huge potential, Scott, of what you're talking about is like getting things to people's fingertips to make the choice that they want to make, to give them back that freedom of that choice, um, opposed to the choice of like, well, I'll just stay in default mode.

00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:26.480
We'll just repeat the last thing.

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.039
And that that comes with the warning sign too.

00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:43.360
And I I know we could be a simple product or something that's in a building, but sometimes, like, you know, I'm not saying this happens, but if we just let things go, situations change and they're not exactly the same as that last project.

00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.920
And and you could be wrong.

00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:54.480
Like that could, it could be the wrong answer, not just aesthetically, just other factors within the design that aren't allowing you to align that.

00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:58.400
I know I'm saying a lot there, but you kind of spark something in me.

00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:08.239
Like, I see this opportunity to give people back precious time to do what they wanted it to do when they came in this industry.

00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:18.559
Like to not, you know, sit and give up on things, to be able to go design the way they want to go design and find those solutions and explore.

00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:24.880
So um, yeah, I guess the question would be is like then what like if this isn't solved, right?

00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:32.880
If we if this isn't resolved, you know, the cavalry's not coming inside the architecture industry, it's not coming into construction either.

00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:49.599
Like, how do you how do you see us continuing to be able to get housing out faster, more infrastructure done quickly, if some of the things that you're thinking about as a team don't don't get to people's fingertips and then in front of them for decision making faster?

00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:54.559
Like what what happens, you know, if we just continue to struggle to accept that?

00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:10.159
So I I I think the the best case scenario is you chose the wrong product and maybe the client overpaid or it's not as performative and they're gonna lose you know money on whether it's like heating the house or the the you know the climate lost.

00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:26.960
Worst case scenario is you're dealing with a bunch of RFIs because you chose the wrong product and or maybe a product that's discontinued or that variant is not available, and now you're just the the costs associated and kind of headache, the cost associated associated with with all of those RFIs.

00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:29.840
I think that's the downstream implication.

00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.519
Going back to the the point about the book, the suites catalog.

00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:40.719
While that might have been a really, really big book, I'm sure it did not capture all the possible products out there.

00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:46.480
And you know, our product library, I I, you know, I can't say it's like on every product in there.

00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:47.519
Like that is our ambition.

00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:48.800
We want to get there eventually.

00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.480
But on the way, we currently have over 800,000 products.

00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.239
It is it is enormous.

00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.920
And those products have variants and they have different uh pieces.

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:07.519
So I I think only with modern technology can you actually parse the breadth of real to like uh potential options in front of you.

00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:14.880
Right with without assistance, you're really narrowing down the the possible options like substantially down.

00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:18.719
And like we're saying before, like everyone loses in in that case.

00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:19.280
Right.

00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:30.719
And I I would point out too, like we're we're talking about design primarily, like researching and and documenting and and and drawing those products or like the assemblies.

00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:40.320
Another challenge is the installation, because you like let's say in a world like you actually chose the right product and and it is the right product and you you documented that and you got in the spec.

00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:48.400
By the time it hits the the site and and the you know the the builder is is on site, they can break the spec or flip the spec.

00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:57.199
Um not you know because they think the product's gonna be more performative, but simply because they've installed another product last year on a different project.

00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:59.760
Their crew is familiar with that that product.

00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:05.360
Uh they they they're friendly with the the local distributor, they can get it on site.

00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:14.239
Um there's a variety of like real world considerations they have as an individual and a company that might override the best intent from the designer.

00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:23.760
So they get on there, they say, like, we're gonna substitute, we're gonna bring in something else, maybe, you know, um, yeah, maybe they'll they'll petition to do that.

00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:29.360
So so there's this whole kind of downstream consideration set as well.

00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:31.840
Like, how do we make sure we find the right product?

00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:45.519
But how do we make sure that right product uh kind of persists through through that process and actually gets installed and actually gets installed the right way and then actually you know goes through the building inspection and and and into occupation for for the owner.

00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:46.079
Yeah.

00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:47.119
Yeah.

00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:51.199
Well, I mean, it's it it goes back to that kind of like the three equal part, right?

00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:54.159
I always put that in because that's how public entities work, right?

00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:56.320
You gotta have three equals.

00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:03.760
But if you think about pulling a spec out, it'll list, depending on where you are in Master Spec, right?

00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:09.360
Or how it's set up in your office, like it's gonna list all of these different manufacturers.

00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.960
Well, if you have a spec writer and you're a designer over here, right?

00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:16.400
Like you might have different perspectives of those systems.

00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:22.639
You might select one, and all of the other eight or ten get left in.

00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:26.159
Nobody's weeded it out, nobody's spent time kind of figuring that out.

00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:36.400
And like you said, because it's in the spec, they have a choice to pick one of those, and you find out it isn't exactly what you wanted as a designer.

00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:45.039
So this is that piece that you were talking about so you know, early on in the conversation was it is all connected.

00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:54.480
Codes, everything being within compliance, code compliant in there, the classifications to the certifications, all of those things, testing.

00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:01.760
That is critical to get aligned with the right aesthetic and the and the solution that you're trying to bring to your client.

00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:10.800
Well, it's a lot easier if you could be aggregated and you get it to three or four that you know are going to work, and you're giving that contractor those three or four.

00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:15.519
Force them into you know, submitting a submission request, right?

00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:20.639
Force them to submit it and make them run through the same exercise.

00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.960
Like, does this meet that criteria uh before you submit it?

00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:33.920
So, yeah, I I do this goes back, I think about all the time kind of spent doing this.

00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.000
This is I this was a passion of mine.

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:43.039
I, you know, I love doing estimates and going through the specifications and getting all of those put together and weeding everything out.

00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:44.880
And I couldn't imagine the time.

00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:51.280
I might have actually made some soccer matches with my kids when I was a little younger because I had time back.

00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:06.960
And I think about how the industry, engineers and architects and everyone else, like we said, we are we put a lot of hours in because we care about what we're doing and the value add that this industry brings to its owners and its communities.

00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:27.599
Like, imagine spending the time on really high return areas, but having this solution, like you're you're talking with upcodes, of linking all of these things together and how much time you would get back, how much areas of other parts of the business you could focus on and as individuals.

00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:35.760
So it just seems like there's a lot of pluses to it, um, you know, for for businesses to be looking at.

00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.119
So tell me, I am curious because you you said this.

00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:52.079
I'm assuming that the manufacturers are almost the most receptive to make sure that these things are put in place and getting in front of people, like you said, to where they weren't visible or could be invisible before.

00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:57.599
Yeah, and the reception has been really strong for exactly the reasons you you're mentioning.

00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:03.920
Um the the um the reception's been really good, but it's it's very interesting.

00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:08.880
And um, the set of challenges a manufacturer faces is very different.

00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:13.360
And for us, it was it was very new, and we we learned and continue to learn a lot through the process.

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:17.280
But a lot of it is just getting the data about these products.

00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:19.119
And that sounds very simple.

00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.000
Um, because you can go online and you can see a manufacturer's site.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:28.719
Well, actually, you know, maybe this won't be surprising because people have probably worked with manufacturers, but there's a lot of information that's not on the website.

00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.199
There's right there's more up-to-date information.

00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:35.840
There might be new products coming in the pipeline that they they haven't disclosed on the on the website.

00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:45.039
There's a lot of information that you currently can't find out without talking to a rep from the from the manufacturer.

00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.960
So we're working with them saying, okay, that may have been the way you worked in the past.

00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:56.000
You have architectural reps working or field services, and that's great.

00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.519
Like you should continue to do that.

00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:02.800
But there is a large segment of the population that they want to self-serve.

00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.679
They want to find and educate themselves on the products.

00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:12.079
They don't necessarily want to jump on the phone and spend a lot of time with a representative from 15 different manufacturers.

00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:17.760
So let them get the information themselves and and queue up that information to make it as easy as possible.

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:23.440
Um now, I think more often than not, that's just a technical challenge they have.

00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:25.599
They're like, we we want to keep the website up to date.

00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:31.199
Uh, we want to get the information out there, but we don't have the the pieces in place to do that.

00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:36.800
And that's where we can come in and we we say, like, okay, we've we've built the system, the content management system.

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:38.320
It's really easy to update.

00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:43.360
Our team can work with you, and we're just gonna get that data out there so people can see it for themselves.

00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:47.119
They can, they can research themselves, they can they can leverage AI on that.

00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:54.559
And when they're ready, they can talk to you and and they'll reach out to your to your representative and just try to connect those those dots a little bit more.

00:45:54.559 --> 00:46:09.039
Um but I will say it's really surprising with a lot of the folks we've on the manufacturing side we've talked to uh so far, when we're like, hey, like as a starting point, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna get the data from your website and then we're gonna we're gonna supplement that.

00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:11.760
And the response often is like, no, no, don't don't do that.

00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:15.039
The the data on our website is is not good, it's not high quality.

00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.199
We're gonna get you a better set of data, uh, which to me is a little bit surprising in the in the modern age, right?

00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:27.679
Like to to have websites that are not reflective of you know the the data and all the performance of the products out there.

00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.079
Um, but that is just the reality.

00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:38.159
So that yeah, you know, it's a very simple pain point, but it's just getting the data out there and having it up to date and reflective of the actual products.

00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:47.360
Uh and then we can fan like focus on the fancy workflows, like AI suggesting products or like better filtering for looking at performance data or certifications.

00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:48.320
Yeah.

00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:51.280
Well, I mean, I'm not surprised by anything that you just said.

00:46:51.280 --> 00:47:01.199
I mean, I think you know, websites like everybody has to have a website, and then it kind of just becomes like the back door, and you're like, oh yeah, I forgot that's there.

00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:06.400
Um, maybe we'll update it because there's so many other avenues.

00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:10.000
And I I do think there are gatekeepers for information.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:18.559
And I think in this industry, me personally, like the industry needs the access when they need the access.

00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:24.639
And I know we all want to know, because we're all in business, get that person in the CRM.

00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:26.320
I need to make sure that I'm calling them.

00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:34.800
I I can remember people visiting my office and dropping stuff off and talking about epoxy flooring and making sure I spec it in the next job.

00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:42.960
And I'm like, I don't have epoxy floor in anything I'm working on right now, but I definitely will, you know, get this into the library.

00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.960
That's how we, like you said, that's how we all used to do it.

00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:52.000
It's like you got to be present, you gotta show up, you gotta be at the top of the email.

00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:00.800
Well, we talked about choice and how everybody wants it, you know, 800,000 different products, like that's a lot to go through.

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:27.360
Um, so the manufacturers seeing this as an opportunity to not just for you, you know, from your perspective, but I think in general, is like you want to be top of mind, have easily accessible information that an architect and an engineer and a contractor can review, understand what it is, what your solutions are, and how to get it specified.

00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:38.800
So the quicker somebody can get access and say that was easy to use, it was easy to find, and it was easy to get it into the solution, the more likely someone is going to use it.

00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:43.840
If it's a simple thing that gets overcomplicated, people become frustrated.

00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:48.880
If it's overcomplicated and you try to make it way too simple, they're going to be frustrated.

00:48:48.880 --> 00:49:00.159
So manufacturers finding that balance of getting that information from a code review, but from a specification and an estimate and a pricing.

00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:01.280
And I get it.

00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:03.679
Like you can't just put the price on the website.

00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:12.480
But there has to be in 2025 a possible different approach than the way it was in 2000.

00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:16.559
Um, and how we look at, you know, building manufacturers and building materials.

00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:27.599
I'm glad you shared it because, you know, building a building material is also different than methodology or a method of construction.

00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:39.840
So I'm curious, like, you know, just from a product standpoint, like we we know kind of mass timber is really one of those things that's really starting to evolve.

00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:46.159
Codes are starting to change, we can start to build taller, people have more curiosity towards it.

00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:51.519
Modular is a whole nother thing, uh, or prefab and prefab systems, right?

00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:57.679
So you're getting into special construction, you know, specification section and codes are starting to shift.

00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:05.840
Like, how are you, as delivery models change and methods construction and beyond the building manufacturers?

00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:10.559
Like, how are you exploring some of those things or how do you see that kind of impacting your business?

00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:15.119
Yeah, and and it's hard to keep going back, but I do want to mention one thing because it's such a good point.

00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:20.559
You know, the accessing the information from the manufacturer at the right time is so critical.

00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.480
Like lunch and learns and CUs are very popular.

00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:32.400
Um, conferences are very, very popular, but it's a random moment in the calendar when they might stop at your office or they or you might go to the conference.

00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:37.599
But the reality of putting these things together and making the decisions, it looks completely different.

00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:40.639
Like this is not in a perfect lab in perfect conditions.

00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:42.880
It this might be Friday night.

00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:43.760
It's 9 p.m.

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:47.199
I'm putting together a drawing set or maybe I'm reviewing specifications.

00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:54.320
I'm not looking to pick up the phone and have a long conversation if you're even a rep is even available at a manufacturer.

00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:00.559
I kind of just want to, I kind of just want to go home and and and you know get this drawing set out to the to the to the client.

00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:03.360
Um I I am gonna choose easy mode.

00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:14.400
I am gonna choose whatever has the least friction, you know, to to to do to complete that set or or you know to a to a decent level.

00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:18.639
But those are like the realities of like, you know, in the field or well, this is in the office.

00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:32.719
But you know, the reality of of actually going through these, and you really have to meet the user where they are and just make sure they have the information, they can actually access these things and you know get it along to at least a reasonable place in these moments that actually happen.

00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:35.679
Or maybe maybe it's not late on a Friday, but you're hitting a deadline.

00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:37.360
Maybe you're you know, 12 p.m.

00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.519
You got you have to submit this so the consultant has it.

00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:46.400
Like there are just realistic deadlines and and time constraints we have to deal with and have to navigate in the industry.

00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:57.920
And blocking access to information, whether it's codes, whether it's products or any of these things, is is just an absolute like hurdle to to doing these things in the job.

00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:02.719
Um happy to jump to that, the the second part.

00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:08.880
Um, you know, delivery models changing and uh so I I think it's it's really interesting.

00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:33.440
So, you know, everyone's gonna have a different experience, but it it in my experience, the organization of a firm, you would have a lot of individuals who are very interested in different topics and and maybe they're pushing the envelope and bringing in this knowledge of like a new delivery model, or you know, they're curious about a different area, like like, or yeah, maybe it's like uh uh mass timber.

00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:44.079
Historically, at least from what I've seen, it's been very hard to share that information amongst the office, especially if you work if you have multiple offices and you know across different regions.

00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:50.639
It could be very hard for an expert in, say, like Northwest Regional to share that with East Coast offices.

00:52:50.639 --> 00:53:14.639
So, how how do you think about capturing institutional knowledge, get like empowering individuals within the firm to come to push forward that this research and and kind of break new ground, but then also share that back to the office and and have different individuals be able to leverage the kind of hive mind or or institutional knowledge these organizations build up over time.

00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:28.400
That's an example from an architecture office, but if it's a a building department, you know, someone might do deep research on um on a sports stadium and like an unusual application they haven't dealt with before.

00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.199
And maybe another one could really benefit from that.

00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:32.880
Um, although those are so uncommon.

00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.199
Maybe I'll use like a hospital or something.

00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:49.280
Um, so it was they can really benefit from, but I feel like so much of the knowledge in the industry is siloed, whether it's information, you know, uh across different organizations, but even inside organizations it can be siloed.

00:53:49.280 --> 00:54:09.440
So now that's a really abstract answer to your question, but we really think about how do you capture the knowledge, that know-how, that's that hard-earned know-how, and how do you amplify individuals, whether they're, you know, a seasoned um uh professional or maybe they're you know a little more um uh fresh or green coming coming out of school.

00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:10.159
Yeah.

00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:22.639
Well, I mean, I I think you're you're right in the in the siloed piece, and that, you know, the way the industry is shifting with architecture firms as an example, you know, there's a lot of mergers and acquisitions that are going on.

00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:28.719
And they're, you know, it's it's you got boutique firms, small firms, right, that exist.

00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:36.639
I kind of started feeling this and thinking this was coming when I left architecture in 2013, to large firms.

00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:39.119
I mean, large firms spread all over the country.

00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:43.280
And you got me thinking about how somebody could utilize the system.

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:57.840
So I'm assuming like a company is utilizing the software, they can see as an entire company things that are going on, the research that's kind of happening, projects that are kind of seen when they're able to aggregate that better.

00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:04.639
Like somebody, like you said, has done that, you know, in the Pacific Northwest, better understanding the mass timber.

00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:14.079
They're sitting in Indianapolis and want to do a library with mass timber in the same firm, they can pull data, the building codes within Indonapolis, right?

00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:22.559
It's going to be different than the Pacific Northwest, but they're able to do that in a in a quicker manner.

00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.880
And you said something else.

00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:27.679
I think we all like to be guardians of information.

00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:36.079
We see it as I won't call it like we hold on to it like we want to remain relevant, but like there's a sense of pride.

00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:39.679
Like I own this, I did the work, therefore I don't want to share it.

00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:53.679
I'm not saying there's 100% of that going on, but there is a tendency to whether it's you know happening because you're you're making it happen or you just you've already got on to the next job.

00:55:53.679 --> 00:56:13.199
And if it's there's no way to share it, there's no platform or way to share it because you know you're just you're like you said, it's Friday night getting the deadline out on Saturday, you're on to that next project, and and things are just moving, and there's no way of knowing within it within an office whether somebody's actually done this before.

00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:29.840
So other ways to be able to share information that people are curious about, that want to learn more without having to go sit through a CEU or go walk across an expo floor that they're going to forget about.

00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:46.880
And the times you got to dig through a business card to try to find the right contact to call or whatever, because you're trying to remember what was that company's name and what event was it that the person shared that information, opposed to being able to do deeper dive research on.

00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:57.039
I'm thinking this sort of solution, this is what I want in the project from a design contextual standpoint to be able to aggregate that much quicker.

00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:12.639
So I find it all well, you know, jealous, not practicing anymore, not working in the industry as deep, like to have that sort of power at my fingertips, just the amount of time that I could have back, right?

00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:16.639
And and sparking more curiosity and exploration.

00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:27.280
Yeah, and and that kind of cues up a whole other topic that we we think about quite a lot, which is what what does it mean for a services-based industry to move into the AI era?

00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:34.559
Notably, how do we leverage AI within our firms to amplify our know-how?

00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:43.679
Because if you if you zoom out, what a lot of firms kind of trade on is their reputation, is is their brand, but most importantly is their know-how.

00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:45.920
Like we we've we've done this for 50 years.

00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:52.960
We we've we've built stadiums before, we've built hospitals before, or we have a great track record with multifamily residential development.

00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.679
And they're trading on that, that know-how.

00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:06.480
So, how do you how do you combine the know-how or or or you know the track record and and the brand with AI as we kind of navigate into this AI era?

00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:19.920
And the way we think about it is kind of training, or I don't know if I say training, but like equipping an AI that's unique to your firm, that has access to the projects, you've documented your decisions, you've documented your research.

00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:24.159
It's it's private, it stays within your walls, but amplifies every individual.

00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:37.599
So if someone's going to a new project, they get a brief, um, they they can query the AI system and it's going to reference historical projects, the firms worked on, ongoing projects, different discussion points.

00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:49.119
And all of a sudden, you have an AI that's more equipped with those decades of know-how from your firm, and you continue to like develop that as you do more research, and it gets stronger and stronger.

00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.320
And and and now you're breaking down the walls.

00:58:52.320 --> 00:59:06.400
So like maybe a little bit more junior or mid-level person can actually answer relatively hard questions because they're kind of combining a lot of other people's um knowledge from from that firm and like what they've contributed to to this firm's uh know-how.

00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:07.039
Yeah.

00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:12.719
I mean, I I think that is so needed.

00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:16.320
To one, like you said, it's protected, it's within their walls.

00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:24.079
It's information there that, hey, all of your years of experience, you are now able to share it more quickly.

00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:45.039
Um we want it at people's fingertips because I think the industry, it can't be as curious as I want it to be, you know, me personally, because of the constraints on time, because of the current, you know, labor force that we have in all aspects of the bit of the industry and our businesses.

00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:51.519
Like there's just not time to do the important things, the reasons we all got into it.

00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:54.159
And if we didn't, then we're neglecting something else, right?

00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:59.280
Something else is getting neglected because it's just that's just how time works.

00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:11.599
So if Like you're saying, there is there is that's where AI, and I see a huge opportunity in it, is the humans still have the agency to define how you want to utilize it.

01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:27.039
You're treating it as all of those minutes that you've either punted on and not taken advantage of to explore something, you're getting those back because now you are asking a technology to do that for you.

01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:37.519
And I think that's, you know, that's one of those areas that that firms can look at, uh, construction companies can look at, uh, building departments, manufacturers.

01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:43.920
The reason I called the podcast Activating Curiosity is because I don't think CEUs drive innovation.

01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:45.920
They don't drive curiosity.

01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:52.719
They get you a credit to go listen to somebody, and like you said, no one's gonna, they may remember, may not.

01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:53.840
It's not at the right time.

01:00:53.840 --> 01:01:06.559
So curiosity shouldn't really be a huge cost and a huge lift to answer a question, to have things at your fingertips, to have, you know, that accessibility that you're talking about.

01:01:06.559 --> 01:01:11.360
So 10 years in, you're starting to think about all the things that you're putting into place.

01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:22.079
AI is accelerating and all of these things, but you know, from your vantage point for the industry, like what do you think success looks like?

01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:26.159
I think that goes kind of back to where we started the the podcast.

01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:37.519
And it's really delivering on on that initial vision and mission, which is just getting all the information together, getting that into people's hands so they're queued up for the right decisions.

01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:48.639
Um if we kind of boil that down to like one example, I I really like the one we were talking about before where it's like you you have like you want to have three options and you want the three best options so you can choose.

01:01:48.639 --> 01:02:02.000
I think we've done our job well if we have queued that up to to the end user and and we represented all the possible options, the hundreds of thousands of options, you know, whether that's codes, assemblies, building products, specifications.

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:12.480
We've just queued up and and taken away a lot of that um kind of busy work that would prevent them from doing the rigorous research otherwise, and done that rigorous research.

01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:18.480
So we A, give them the best options, and then B maximize the chances that it's the right choice.

01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:28.159
Uh, it's it's a choice that the designer's happy with, the homeowner or developer is happy with, and then benefits the climate or makes it just more resilient homes as well.

01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:37.119
So I think it's really just aggregating that information and just getting it into people's hands in as efficient and as streamlined a way as possible.

01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:40.559
And I will say that's intentionally vague because it could change.

01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:47.199
Like it, you know, our picture of that looked very different four years ago before modern LLMs burst onto the scene.

01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:52.639
Now it looks a lot different powered with AI, but who knows what what that's gonna look like in four or five years.

01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:56.400
But uh that that's why we just stick to the core fundamentals of of the vision.

01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:57.440
Right.

01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:07.760
Well, I mean I I think what you're aiming to do is is important for the entire industry, but I think what you're giving people back is, you know, choice.

01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:18.000
Like, like you're giving them back the agency to begin to make choices where otherwise they might punt on it, they may never see it, they may never find it.

01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:33.360
And and I know I've I've said this before in other conversations of like that's been the biggest hurdle for us as an industry in and talking with young designers or talking with engineers or anybody, you know, even in construction, is like take a contractor.

01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:40.800
We're getting specification sections that don't like none of this stuff exists, the manufacturers aren't like no one had time to review it or this and that.

01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:44.480
And it's like no one wants to do that.

01:03:44.480 --> 01:04:05.440
Like no one got into this profession and this industry to like not be able to make all of the choices that we were aiming to make in order to design a space and a building and an environment the way we wanted to do it, meeting whatever criteria that that the project was set out to do.

01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:19.920
So all of these solutions that are aiming to say, like you're doing the your passion is look, I saw this and I said, this is a lot of wasted time from if it's just me, right?

01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:35.519
I have to think about all of the other millions of people that are in this industry, like this has to, this has to be, you know, huge amount of of dollars that are being wasted inside of firms or wasted opportunity for choices.

01:04:35.519 --> 01:04:56.800
And I commend you on, you know, taking a step back, having that conversation with your brother to be like, look, I I recognize this, I see it as an opportunity to try to help other people get back their, you know, their opportunity to design and build the way that they they wanted to.

01:04:56.800 --> 01:05:02.320
So um, you know, if someone's listening and they're like, hey, I I'm curious now.

01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:08.320
Um I want to take some action steps and kind of understand a little more, like what are some of those steps they could do?

01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:11.360
How can they continue to to kind of activate their curiosity?

01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:19.119
Well, I think they could um, you know, go go on Google, you know, throw us in there and up close it to Google and it'll take you to the site.

01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:29.360
So you can there there's so many free resources on there that you can just put to use, I think, or hopefully, you know, right away to find this information and get in there and understand it uh a lot better.

01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:35.039
Um but secondly, a lot of what we work on is from hearing from the community.

01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:41.280
Like we we make a very big point to talk to to folks in the community, uh, hear about their pain points.

01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:50.320
Like, like I was mentioned before, yes, it's hard because you hear a lot of different perspectives and and requests, but a lot of what we focus on um just comes from talking with people.

01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:59.920
So we we just love connecting with the community, whether it's um, you know, at a at a conference, an in-person event, over a Zoom call, over a webinar, whatever it is, we just love connecting with people.

01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:04.159
So I think on the one hand, it's it's just utilizing the resources that are there.

01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:12.159
And then on the other hand, it's just connecting and just kind of surfacing these problems to the limelight, putting a spotlight on them so we can focus on them.

01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:18.239
We've talked about a bunch today, but uh, there's so many more and ones that other people are gonna tackle and think about.

01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:22.639
But we can't really do that if we're not conscious of of the friction points.

01:06:22.639 --> 01:06:30.239
So it's it's just getting that discourse, just talking about it, surfacing it, putting a limelight on it so it can get tackled by us or by by others.

01:06:30.559 --> 01:07:00.000
Yeah, I like that you shared that it's that you know, we are we are gonna just scratch a surface in our conversation, but I'm sure what what would be helpful is that if there is someone out there listening and you you do that research, kind of see what Scott and team have going on at at Upcodes, that openness that you have, that open door sort of policy of like, hey, we can only improve this if you're willing to give us that feedback and and and try to help us understand like where your pain points are and those friction points.

01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:08.480
Like, like that's must that's that's just so critical because I think a lot of times it's less that and more of like, well, that's what we have to offer and go from there.

01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:29.599
And that is fine in some instances, but with what you're trying to address, Scott, like you're saying, it's like there are a lot of different variables that are put into place because of the local jurisdictions, the state, all the different code requirements, all the different, you know, other certifications and things that go into place.

01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:31.760
So you've got a heavy lift.

01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:43.280
You, you know, you you've stepped out of your architecture career, but you're you're still giving back to the industry and this, and your, you know, your brother being willing to kind of dive in with you.

01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:51.519
I I appreciate the fact that you guys, you know, saw a problem and said, you know what, let's take a shot at this, right?

01:07:51.519 --> 01:07:53.199
Let's see, let's see what we can do.

01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:54.719
You're 10 years in.

01:07:54.719 --> 01:08:05.039
I was excited to see the the product side, the building manufacturers and everything kind of evolving in your AI direction that you were heading since I've been following you.

01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:08.800
So I appreciate all that you're doing, Scott.

01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:13.199
I am so um grateful that you were willing to be a guest on the podcast.

01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.760
And we want to spark more curiosity.

01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:25.600
And I I will share all of your information, all your links, so that if the listeners want to reach out and and kind of understand a little bit more that they're they're able to.

01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:26.880
So thanks, Scott.

01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:29.199
Thanks for uh being on Activating Curiosity.

01:08:29.439 --> 01:08:30.720
Well, thanks for having me, Ryan.

01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:32.319
And and I really like the podcast.

01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:34.720
I like the fact you know, people are getting on there.

01:08:34.720 --> 01:08:44.560
We're talking about how we can you know learn more and as you say, like activating curiosity and get in there just just so we can motivate and and and have those discussions and and discourse.

01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:49.279
I love the conversations today and looking forward to uh hearing all the future guests as well.

01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:51.920
All right, thanks, Scott.

01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:53.199
Great, thanks.

01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:57.119
So that is the episode with Scott Reynolds with Up Codes.

01:08:57.119 --> 01:09:07.920
And I I thought listeners would be interested in this one because I, you know, building codes are such a vital part of everything that we do within design and construction.

01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:15.600
It is all about protecting the humans within the within the facilities, within the buildings and around the buildings.

01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:25.520
And, you know, whether you're an architecture all the way through in manufacturing, all of those things that we talked about are intertwined.

01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:44.079
Like you can't look at designing a space in a project without linking it to building materials and methods of construction and solutions and those materials that are used within those areas without thinking about the building codes.

01:09:44.079 --> 01:10:08.720
And there hasn't been this moment where someone has aimed to stitch them together to find a way to get an access point where you could go through deeper dive of discovery and research, providing you with information at your fingertips based off that criteria that you're setting.

01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:11.199
You know, before it was.

01:10:11.199 --> 01:10:22.640
It was going to a library, it was grabbing, you know, catalogs off of a shelf, then you got into the internet, and we could do deeper, you know, exploration from websites.

01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:25.279
But Scott brought that up as well.

01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:28.399
Like websites are it's it's junk in, junk out.

01:10:28.399 --> 01:10:43.359
If websites are not updated routinely, if only half the information is there, you're only going to get so much access before you're hitting a roadblock, before you're hitting that point where you now have to engage someone else.

01:10:43.359 --> 01:10:58.159
And I get it from a manufacturer's standpoint, like you want to get a product out to someone, you want them to see uh what you're capable of, what makes you different than anyone else.

01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:03.600
Like all of that is fair, but I don't think it's a this or that situation.

01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:24.319
I think it is still possible to provide an avenue for people to get to a quicker um solution or decision-making process without giving up that choice, like Scott was saying, giving up the choice to just not go grab that last spec and put it in because you don't have time.

01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:50.399
Scott's team is really looking at this area of how to give everybody within the process of designing through construction and building review and local jurisdictions back more time to do the things that we as humans are more effective at doing and things that we're passionate about doing, those things that are intrinsic to who we are, why we got into the profession in the first place.

01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:57.359
So I'm excited about where Scott and his brother and his team are going.

01:11:57.359 --> 01:12:07.119
I think that they have uh an area that they are focused on that that others haven't really tried or maybe oversimplified.

01:12:07.119 --> 01:12:13.279
But the thing that Scott said is explore and get it, get within their community.

01:12:13.279 --> 01:12:40.479
You know, if you're in their community and you can share information and you can share your experiences and you can ask more questions and piquing their curiosity as well as your own, then then I think that we can continue to um find ways to get to the solutions and without punting on them, without giving them up and giving up our agency around choice because we just don't have time.

01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:43.760
So until next time, I hope you stay well.

01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:52.479
I hope you continue to look at those areas within your life that you said, hey, I find this to be repetitive or a problem that I would really like to solve.

01:12:52.479 --> 01:13:33.520
And I hope that you are able to continue to activate your curiosity as well as activating curiosity and activating curiosity, curiosity connected connected curiosity, curiosity, which is leading with curiosity.