Feb. 24, 2026

Overcoming Resistance: Embracing the Human Side of Modular Construction Innovation

Overcoming Resistance: Embracing the Human Side of Modular Construction Innovation
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Mindset ShiftPrefab ConstructionModular ConstructionIndustrialized Construction

Summary 

In this episode, Ryan Ware sits down with Ali Salman of Workspace Modular Structures, a seasoned entrepreneur, to explore the transformative potential of prefab and modular construction within the construction industry. They discuss how overcoming resistance to change and adopting a proactive mindset is essential in driving innovation and addressing major infrastructure challenges globally. The conversation highlights the crucial role of change management in the construction industry and how leadership development supports this transition.

Ali emphasizes the importance of productization in construction for scalability and improved market fit, underscoring the need for more disruptive leaders and entrepreneurs in the AEC industry. The episode also delves into how curiosity-driven leadership and continuous learning can empower professionals to navigate the human side of change management effectively. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on integrating change leadership principles and innovative strategies into their construction business practices.

Whether you're interested in construction leadership development, modular construction innovation, or managing change in leadership, this episode offers practical insights and inspiration for leading change confidently in today’s evolving construction landscape.

Chapters 

00:00 Introduction to Ali Salman and His Journey
03:44 The Transformative Power of Modular Construction
11:49 The Need for Change in Construction Practices
18:57 Opportunities in Prefab and Modular Solutions
23:24 The Role of Technology in Construction
28:40 Future of Modular Construction and Industry Growth
39:40 Challenges and Opportunities in Modular Construction
57:28 Creating Better Communities through Infrastructure

Guest 

Ali Salman is a seasoned investor, entrepreneur, and operator building transformative companies across legaltech, franchising, and industrialized construction. As an active partner in Lawtiq.com, founder of Global Franchise Brokers, and CEO of Workspace Modular, Ali’s work sits at the intersection of innovation, scale, and real-world problem solving.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ali-salman-8a141312/

https://workspacemodular.ca/

Send us your thoughts, ideas, questions

Connective Consulting Group
Helping construction leaders simplify change, strengthen trust, and move forward with clarity.

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https://www.linkedin.com/company/connective-consulting-group-llc

https://connectiveconsultinggrp.com/

https://connective-coaching.com/

https://ryanware.me/

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WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.320
I came into the industry as a problem solver, as like an entrepreneur, right?

00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:07.040
You know, we have a bug to solve problems, right?

00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.240
So uh when I looked at the industry, industry is a status quo right now, right?

00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:16.719
Doesn't matter where we go, status quo is not easy to change because they're just comfortable.

00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:18.399
That's that's what they know, right?

00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.160
That's how it's been done, right?

00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.960
But that doesn't mean the new way of doing it, right?

00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:26.000
You know, uh is that that's not what they should learn, right?

00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.559
So I think that it's about relearning, unlearning, and what we call it, right?

00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:34.320
Like, you know, that industry really has to look at it, that hey, how are they building it?

00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.399
How they can build it better.

00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:18.159
Uh up in the great white north of uh Alberta, Canada.

00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:20.400
So um Ali, how are you doing?

00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:27.120
I'm doing amazing, Ryan, and it's great to be joining you uh this morning from uh all the from Ohio, right?

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:31.840
So yeah, well it's snowing here, so I don't know what it's doing in Edmonton, but I have a guess.

00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:32.959
Uh you got it right.

00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.400
Your guess is pretty close by, and that's why I have this picture behind me.

00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:39.519
It reminds me that, hey, I have to go somewhere warmer.

00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:40.719
So right, right.

00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:42.560
Yeah, well, you snowbirds, right?

00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.040
You got to get down into the into the States.

00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:57.760
So, well, I'm looking forward to the conversation because you came across the my LinkedIn feed and started seeing you post about things that were very relatable to some of my passion.

00:01:57.760 --> 00:01:59.280
And I know you'll get into this.

00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:04.959
So before we dive into the episode, I know you're involved in a lot of different businesses.

00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.800
So just tell a little bit about yourself and then we'll dive into activating curiosity.

00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.439
So, Ryan, uh, my wife told me once that I'm unemployable.

00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:27.759
Uh, so uh a kind of a seasoned serial entrepreneur uh came to Canada 20 years ago, uh, dropped out of a university because family comes from a business world, uh, really got into businesses, right?

00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:34.240
You know, did everything from running restaurants to uh basically like you know running a consulting firm.

00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:50.240
And then um once uh throughout my experiences as of today, uh I'm involved in private equity, cross-border mergers and acquisitions, uh, and uh foreign direct investment mandates, predominantly in Canada, Dubai, and India.

00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:58.159
But you know, Ryan, the most thing I'm excited about, uh, which wakes me up, I think that is more good work.

00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:04.000
But like what really uh excites me is uh my involvement with uh Workspace Modular.

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:05.680
Uh I lead that company.

00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:10.719
It's a modular manufacturing, uh prefab modular manufacturing uh company.

00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:19.599
And we are based uh right outside of Edmonton and industrial area uh in Alberta and predominantly serve Western Canada.

00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:25.680
Uh hopefully we serve across Canada, uh, but right now mostly centered on Western Canada, right?

00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:28.240
You know, and that's what consumes me uh day to day.

00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:32.560
Uh a husband, dad, right, you know, try to get some workouts, but I don't think so.

00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:33.759
It's with busy life.

00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:35.039
It's it's it's it's tough.

00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:35.840
It's tough, right?

00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:36.400
Yeah.

00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.000
Well, you'll you'll find the time.

00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.000
I mean, you know, the dad part.

00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:49.360
Well, somebody once told me, hey, you the story about someone complaining about their lawn, and they're like, hey, uh, don't worry about your lawn, you're growing kids.

00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.039
Um so you'll find, you'll find the time.

00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:55.680
And and I appreciate you sharing the story.

00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:01.199
And I know, you know, the workspace modular is what sort of caught my eye.

00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:15.680
Um, but so many other fascinating parts of who you are and those things, like you said, that kind of wake you up in the morning and drive, you know, that that intrinsic motivation that you're having of like, hey, uh, I might be unemployable.

00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.759
That does not make me useless, right?

00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:23.120
Like I have something that I'm passionate about and and you're noticing it.

00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:37.759
So getting into the episode here a little more, then I always like to start with the first question being around, all right, Ollie, something caught your eye and you said that is a problem we're solving.

00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:38.800
What was that?

00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:51.360
So, Ryan, uh, think about when we go back in history, there has been times in history fundamentally it changed the pace of progression and growth as humans, right?

00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:52.959
You know, that made a big impact.

00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:56.000
First time agriculture became industrialized, right?

00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.600
People using hands and their tractors came in, right?

00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:05.439
First time computer went from like, you know, being in five rooms to like this small chip, right?

00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:18.319
You know, because chips got so some discoveries are basically transformational for uh humans, right, across the world, irrespective of country, uh region, right?

00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:24.720
And if we really look at the practice and the construction method of prefab and modular, right?

00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:32.560
Let that be modular being like you know, cement slabs, let that be mass timber, let that be volumetric.

00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:43.680
Just the concept of doing construction in a prefab in a modular way, I believe is transformative to the infrastructure side, right?

00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:50.000
You know, um, because this approach can be, it's already applied, but it's not just mainstream yet.

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.879
It has its own struggles, it has its own challenges.

00:05:52.879 --> 00:06:01.519
But you know, uh uh we we we are sitting in in in our offices and homes, and our homes are heated and hot water flows.

00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.000
It took years and years and years to get there.

00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:12.240
So I think modular and prefab is basically solving a huge problem in the world, uh, which in which is infrastructure.

00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:20.079
We don't have enough infrastructure, education, health, um, you say basically bridges and roads and all of that kind of things, right?

00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:28.160
You know, so um so it it has this very promising uh angle to it, and that's pretty much excites me the most.

00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:45.920
Uh we we mostly do panelized and volumetric, but you know, if you look at uh a lot of industrial uh commercial, uh like it's going like you know, big prefab, uh like you know, uh cement and like you know, uh so very different kind of building materials are getting used.

00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:52.240
But just this whole concept of prefab and modular being a huge problem solver that genuinely excites me.

00:06:52.240 --> 00:07:05.040
Because if we can solve infrastructure problems, we can solve health problems, we can solve education problems, uh, we can solve home less less problems, which is it's a huge in the urban centers across North America, right?

00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:05.759
You know, right.

00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:14.560
Uh so um, so yeah, I think that's what uh that's what sparked my curiosity, led me to this rabbit hole of Fab and Modular.

00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:15.920
And I loved it.

00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.959
Uh and I think um uh there is we're just getting started, right?

00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:29.920
I genuinely believe this whole movement, it's a very new, new uh uh uh thing for a lot of uh uh folks.

00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.600
Uh and and I think industry has been very traditional.

00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:47.680
Industry was, let's say, they were like, you know, doing it the old way, but the industry understands it that if they can really change, and like, you know, we talked about robotics, we talked about like you know automation.

00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.959
Uh imagine how one car plant can pump out thousands of cars.

00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:58.879
Why can't a housing plant cannot pump out hundreds of thousands of houses?

00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:00.800
And I think that's where we are going.

00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:08.319
Uh let that be houses, let that be modules for construction, hospitals, uh, schools, right?

00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:09.040
Mm-hmm.

00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:23.600
Yeah, so your your background is not from the industry, and that's I think what made it, you know, made it unique because you saw a problem where it not only impacts the industry, the AEC industry, right?

00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:30.399
Like infrastructure impacts every single person on the face of the planet somehow, some way.

00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:40.080
Um, and you talked about like a lot of the challenges I know we have here in the States and also there in Canada, um, with that with the housing.

00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:44.000
There's just not a supply, you know, line to to fill.

00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:48.639
If you want to lower and make things more affordable, there you have to increase the supply.

00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:51.600
It's just basic economics 101.

00:08:51.600 --> 00:09:12.720
But we haven't been able to achieve that, I think for a lot of reasons over the years, be it people willing to invest into it, a lot of times um it falls into there is not the labor force to do the work, let alone those willing to develop new housing.

00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:19.440
Um, the thing that really drove post-World War II for a lot of us was, you know, the housing boom.

00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:20.960
Um, and everyone could afford it.

00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:22.879
Well, the supply was cranked up.

00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:28.159
Um, but there was a major change that shifted in that time frame of how we were building as well.

00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:32.639
Um, we were still doing some stick building and things, but the material was shifting.

00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:47.840
So you hit on some things that I think are very intriguing is that yes, there is an old way of doing it, but situations have now shifted to where we have to re-evaluate how we're building.

00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:56.799
So you spotted it as an individual that said, this isn't just one person being impacted, it's it's much larger.

00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:05.039
Something that has always struck me within our industry is you know, people are always like, oh, the industry's slow to change.

00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.679
You got an outside perspective here.

00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:18.080
Is there an obstacle and barriers for other people to even recognize these solutions, these methods of construction as a viable option for them as well?

00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:24.080
So, Ryan, uh I came into the industry as a problem solver, as like an entrepreneur, right?

00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.799
You know, we have a buck to solve problems, right?

00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:35.759
So uh when I looked at the industry, I think you hit the nail uh right there that industry is a status quo right now, right?

00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:40.720
Doesn't matter where we go, status quo is not easy to change because they're just comfortable.

00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:42.320
That's that's what they know, right?

00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:44.240
That's how it's been done, right?

00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:51.840
Um but that doesn't mean the new way of doing it, right, you know, uh is that that's not what they should learn, right?

00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:56.399
So I think that it's about relearning, unlearning, and what we call it, right?

00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.399
Like, you know, that industry really has to look at it that hey, how are they building it?

00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:02.639
How they can build it better, right?

00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:04.960
Um, I'll give you a simple example, right?

00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.879
We talk about different demographics across the world get impacted.

00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:13.840
We have all seen this in famous video of China assembling a hospital intakes.

00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:19.039
So see, okay, so see, when the necessity hits, we do it.

00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:19.360
Okay.

00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:23.679
But then, but then we get comfortable and we go back to status quo, right?

00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:24.080
You know?

00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:31.679
So I think that's what my perspective was that no, why are we going to keep going back to status quo and go to traditional methods, right?

00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.440
We need infrastructure.

00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:42.159
Um recently, like, you know, when we just look at uh a densification of the cities, it's unsustainable for the cities to keep growing like this.

00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:43.120
Right.

00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.000
I mean, taxes are crazy.

00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.519
So they need density.

00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:50.240
Now, how are you gonna build in density, right?

00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.759
Uh uh you cannot really go and build sign built.

00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:55.600
It just doesn't make sense, right?

00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.000
You know, you disrupt the whole neighborhood, right?

00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:05.679
Um so uh when we talk about aging demographics, every day just in Canada, 1,000 people become seniors.

00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:13.120
They want to live close to their families, they want to live uh like you know in mother-in-law suite or like you know, in the digital small prefab.

00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:19.840
So my point is that there is niche market needs which prefab and modular can solve.

00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:30.960
Um and that's where the opportunities and that's what traditional industry has to really come out of this trailer mindset and say, hey, we can solve big problems here, right?

00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:37.600
And I think it's more, I I genuinely believe, Ryan, that this industry needs more disruptors and entrepreneurs.

00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.200
Right?

00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:44.720
Yeah uh who can really come and solve these problems and create solutions around it.

00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:46.960
Because it's like saying that we have a Lego.

00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:49.039
We always say we have a Lego in place.

00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.360
So then what can we build with that, right?

00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.799
You know, okay, what kind of problems can we solve with it, right?

00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:05.120
And I think that's where uh uh it it kind of opened up uh like you know a door for me to really see that this is upside in this whole uh in the in this whole industry.

00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:12.559
And then I also believe that uh across the world, we have the playbook which already exists, right?

00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.279
Because in Europe, playbook exists, right?

00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:20.000
You know, so you cannot tell me that Ali this cannot be done, right?

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.600
That's BS, right?

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:22.240
You know, right.

00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:28.159
We don't want you don't want to do it because you're just too comfortable doing the way you know how to start, right?

00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:38.639
Uh uh most modular manufacturers today are technically not an assembly line, still, right?

00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:39.039
Right.

00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:50.399
Because uh because the way we built it, right, you know, is still again, even industry itself, industry has an excellent solution, but industry itself needs to transform a bit.

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:57.279
And that's where we I think we are headed, where uh repeatable uh panelized walls are getting pumped out by robots, right?

00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:02.559
You know, uh your robots are not calling in sick, uh, they are on time, they are on schedule.

00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:10.879
Uh there's a whole other debate about how many people will lose their jobs, but I think we also have to talk about how many new jobs will be created, right?

00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:11.200
Yeah.

00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:12.720
So the new labor force.

00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:13.519
100%.

00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:31.120
So if we I think train our labor force to really be the future labor force, right, you know, and uh and how we can build sustainable, uh fast, and affordable, which market can definitely compete with the site built, right?

00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:37.919
You know, then I think uh uh this is where like you know the uh uh the opportunity exists in a marketplace, right?

00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:42.799
You know, because as we talk about uh different market segments, a lot talk about schools.

00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:43.600
Right.

00:14:43.600 --> 00:15:02.799
Every region in the urban center, when it's not sustainable for them to keep building new schools, a lot of them do modular extensions to existing schools because when the neighborhood matures up, they can take out those extensions because uh the kids move out of that neighborhood.

00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:11.200
And that's what the densification idea is that cities really cannot afford uh uh if they keep building in a traditional way.

00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.679
And then when we talk about rural areas, right?

00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.720
Rural areas, you cannot drive five framers, middle of nowhere, right?

00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:25.519
Feed them and then say, hey, can you put up this stick and right now with minus 10 or minus 15 weather?

00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:29.600
So I think across the board, there are solutions.

00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:44.879
If someone comes into this industry with solutions, either from inside or outside, I think there's a hell of money on the table, and there is a lot of opportunity on the table, uh, because that's where I genuinely believe that's where this industry is standing as a Yeah.

00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.679
I mean, you brought up a lot of great points.

00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:52.720
And I want to back up because I want to start with this area of you know that resistance.

00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:59.519
It's the human the human mind doesn't like new things.

00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.799
Like it's it's built to run from those things.

00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:24.799
And I love that you said relearn because that's an area, you know, being a coach and change management coach and focusing in that area, like understanding how we think about it as individuals, but also as other humans, to see it like hey, this isn't about making what you're doing irrelevant.

00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.960
We're not saying that you're wrong.

00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:29.840
We're not saying that it was ever wrong.

00:16:29.840 --> 00:17:00.399
It's just the situation that we find ourselves in today, the need for greater supply, the need, as you said, for rural areas where people may not want to live and there is no contractor, there is no subcontractor pole, like those humans still need an answer, like need something to address it, and it can't be, you know, an enormous cost to give them what they're you know, what they need from a necessity standpoint.

00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:10.240
So from an industry side, we have an opportunity to go address a lot of those by reframing how we think about these solutions.

00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:15.359
And I I would say that you know, prefab is not, it's not a new thing.

00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:21.200
I'm almost 50, but like we've been talking about it a long time.

00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:26.559
I worked at a precast plant before going to architecture school, and it was there my whole life.

00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:32.240
I was watching them ship out beams and panels as I'm growing up.

00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:33.920
I'm like, this is fascinating.

00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.960
Like they're building this in a plant and shipping it.

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:42.319
So it is a mindset shift in from all aspects.

00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:58.559
I I don't know how you think about this, but the contractors themselves, yes, we need to provide them, you know, a better way to work when they're out working because that will make it more attractive and getting people attracted into the industry.

00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:17.920
Like they don't want to be freezing, they don't want to have lunch on a curb, they don't want to go to the bathroom in a Portageon from a construction site standpoint, as well as those educational pieces of like, I remember the trailers sitting on on the site at at high school, and some classes were were in those.

00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.119
And it felt it didn't feel right.

00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:36.160
Well, today's solutions are far more advanced and attractive that doesn't say like, hey, you're second citizen here, it just says we we see the need and we're giving you uh another way to to learn.

00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.720
So I know I know I'm saying a lot there, but it's a mindset, right?

00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:41.599
Like mindset.

00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:43.279
There's there's some mindset shift.

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:49.039
So with those obstacles, like I you don't come from the industry, so I'd love to hear your opinion on this.

00:18:49.039 --> 00:19:00.640
Like when those obstacles are sort of being thrown in, how are you staying in that conversation, helping them see the opportunity to relearn, as you just said.

00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:02.960
I think that's an excellent point, right.

00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:15.039
You know, I think um uh we really need to understand that our our obstacles are not uh they are not challenges, they are opportunities, actually.

00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.039
This is just a mindset shift there, right?

00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.039
I'll give you one example.

00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:25.839
When you built it, even in today, when you built it inside a factory, you actually built a better product, period.

00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:26.480
Right.

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:33.920
Uh you're not out there standing on a ladder, like you know, so I think uh there's a lot of weather, a lot of other logistics, right?

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:41.680
Um the way industry does QA, right, and how we communicate it to the end user.

00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:50.960
Uh often people will talk, uh GCs or developers will say, you know, I was trying to call my manufacturer, like, you know, I don't know where which stage my building is at.

00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:56.000
Is there nothing has been done, or is it like, are you finishing in TD or are you doing flooring, right?

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:04.960
Um and we I I see a tremendous opportunity because you know, uh homes today uh are still sold to humans.

00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.039
Humans are we are all emotional buyers, right?

00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:07.599
You know, okay.

00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:07.920
Right.

00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:18.319
So when we talk, when we go back in how industry thinks, right, you know, still over 90% of the factories have QA in a traditional paper format, right?

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:19.039
Right.

00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:24.880
Uh even they have a four people bloated design teams, they're not using AI, right?

00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:33.119
It's like, you know, I always think I'm not saying I'm an Elon and I come to X and I take over and I say I'm gonna fire like, you know, half of the factory.

00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.720
I'm not trying to say that, but actually that's what factories are today.

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:38.079
That's what the industry is, right?

00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:50.960
You know, they're not realizing that we have tremendous opportunity to solve these uh challenges, turn it into uh like chat challenges, turn it into opportunities because that's what industry, that's what market wants it, right?

00:20:50.960 --> 00:21:07.039
So I think when you're building a building a structure or a home for someone in a factory, now imagine that like you know, in in real time, the end user, Sally, she's she has her dreams, that's her nest for life.

00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.440
She has her dreams associated with it, right?

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:20.480
You know, you're communicating through a proper tool, proper like, you know, uh uh like you know, project management, where they're when they're basically she can see exactly what's happening with her structure, right?

00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:32.400
You know, so there's a hell of opportunity inside the industry where because industry does it in a certain way, and you know the answer I always got, hey Ali, we have been doing it for 30 years.

00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:33.200
It works.

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.279
Don't come and fix it like this.

00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:37.839
And and and and I'm like, and I'm like, fine, right?

00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:47.839
You know, okay, but but if I can tell you you are you are becoming faster, you you're you're basically creating less headache for yourself, right?

00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:54.480
So I think uh uh project management to communication to like you know how the whole flow runs, right?

00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.680
There's a science and math behind it, right?

00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.759
And technology helps us do that.

00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:00.160
that.

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.359
So I think that's where the because the industry inside says, see, the biggest challenge is there is a huge deficit of human capital who guides what experience.

00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:10.559
So that's the problem.

00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:10.880
Right.

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:21.200
When you go to when you go to operations VP or a manager or someone who's been doing it for last 20, 30 years, they say, hey, this works.

00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:22.720
That's how we do it.

00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:24.880
And it has always worked for us.

00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:25.279
Right.

00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:27.680
So that's where the challenge comes in, Ryan.

00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.160
And that's where the opportunity comes in the industry.

00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:30.400
Right.

00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:36.799
For for for so when I saw it and I said, you know what, why are we not running two ships?

00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:39.759
Why are we not building the similar product?

00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:43.599
One car plant doesn't pump out 50 different models.

00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:48.000
They focus on 10 specific models so they can scale, right?

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:58.319
So I think there is a uh that's where the opportunity is when you come in as an outsider, you look at status quo and you say, no, imperatively healthcare is here.

00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:05.200
You know, like you know other sectors are here, but why prefab is operating at this technology level, right?

00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:19.519
And I think that's how you start talking to the stakeholders from the guy who is doing craning to the guy who is doing piles of foundation to someone like you know who um who is doing even trusses as a roof component, right?

00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:24.240
You know, how we can use technology, how we can get better.

00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:36.640
So when we go and sell our product, I I think I think one of the interesting things is industry says that you know uh uh we are not growing right we are not growing as we should.

00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:37.200
Right.

00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:45.200
I personally say you have not given a market enough compelling reason that they come knocking at your door.

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.839
This is a different difference in approach.

00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.359
We don't have to keep saying the why are we not growing.

00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:59.680
I think we really have to understand it what are the solutions like you know if you have a better product out there, Ryan, you don't need to sell it.

00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.799
I think industry needs to create a better product.

00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.519
I think a lot of companies are doing it.

00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:21.359
We are all in different journeys uh there is amazing companies out of US who are working on like you know repeatable scalable models right but but I think we are not like no one has been able to nail it down and that's where the opportunity exists.

00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:49.680
And that's why we see uh a lot of talent coming in from outside because they see an opportunity in prefab and modular but they're also not thinking from a status quo perspective right and I think that creates the room uh uh to really solve problems in the industry right you know and I think I'm a genuine believer that when I sit across the table uh I have massive respect for people who have been on the ground and doing it for the last 20, 30 years.

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:50.000
Right.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:25:05.440
And but I think at the same time that respect also goes the other way that you know if someone is saying that use technology and use AI on how we can let's optimize our floor time, right?

00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.920
That's where the opportunities exist to improve, right?

00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:19.920
You know so I think uh uh uh both the status quo and uh the new way of doing it, right, you know, has to be merged to find this middle ground, right?

00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:27.920
You know, because see if we don't solve it or we don't solve it, we are losing on an opportunity to really grow this industry.

00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:34.000
I think the industry deserves to be grown at 3 to 4x of what the current Kagger is in North America.

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:41.200
I think we can genuinely get to 25 to 30% of the market right there's an opportunity there.

00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.079
But we just have to think like a problem solvers.

00:25:44.079 --> 00:26:12.000
We don't have to blame outsiders and say hey why they are not buying prefab and modular well we may not have the right product market fit yet as an industry where industry where market can tell you hey I'm gonna build 80% of the houses prefab and modular because it just doesn't make sense for me to build it like you know side build because what you guys have came up you have came up with a tractor when I was using my hands.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:12.559
Right.

00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:48.799
Yeah I you know you said a lot of things that kind of again just spark the curiosity in me and and I come from this industry but it's just thinking through again other ways of addressing the other humans who are feeling like hey you're trying to take something away from me um so the status quo you know I think a lot of people in the industry will hear status quo and they think like well you're just saying you know I'm too old or I'm this right that everyone goes through their own iteration of what they heard.

00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:56.480
And I think you know it's because one we like to control things ourselves.

00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:09.920
We want to make the choice ourselves and in this situation with these solutions like that status quo means clarity because it's worked every time for 30 years.

00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:18.799
And there's a problem with all of that in the sense that it can work for 30 years but the one time it doesn't then what?

00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:45.440
Because situations have changed and that is you know NASA had problems with that to where there were signals that things weren't going to go well but the minute the space shuttle didn't return yeah like it worked for 30 years ahead of that or 10 missions ahead of that and that one time that it didn't it cost um you know lives and a lot of reputation.

00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:50.720
So status quo I look at it from a standpoint it isn't wrong.

00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:59.759
Again it's just we have to understand that clarity came because we've done it so many times.

00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:06.880
And as you said it's like I think what I'm hearing from you and this is how I think too is like there isn't a silver bullet to this.

00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:14.880
It's not an answer for everything, but it can start to answer enough things that it raises all levels.

00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:24.160
We're able to start addressing housing shortages and affordability and getting things into rural areas as well as other parts of cities.

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:30.240
So like you said it is a critical problem to solve.

00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:56.079
And you've said hey I'm getting involved into this right it's a i i i I I think status also exists on all levels not just in private like in a private sector public sector as well look at the building codes and look at like you know how many municipalities like provinces states operate in building codes I think there's also a comfort level there that that's how we have done it.

00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:29.920
This is how the codes work we don't want to change it right you know I think there is also a status on that side as well so private sector also has that challenge right you know uh uh but there is a status quo within private sector as you talked about it so I think on both sides public and private both right you know but until it gets disrupted right and I think you know Ryan what worries me what worries me is that when I look at a factory in China they are moving at 15x the space they can build an electric car cheaper than Tesla.

00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:40.799
So that tells me that it's not that it's not doable it's doable but we really have to think outside of the box and overcome the status quo here.

00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:41.119
Right.

00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.599
Right?

00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.559
Because that's where the disruption will happen.

00:29:44.559 --> 00:30:00.240
Because if if the builders and developers manufacturers this whole ecosystem doesn't realize is it that they're gonna build a local made solution in North America I can see us like you know our whole dollar store is 90% China.

00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:05.359
I don't I don't mind saying like you know I'm probably gonna see like 90% of the homes are from China, right?

00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:05.920
You know, okay.

00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:16.079
And I'm not saying it's a bad thing but we as as an ecosystem will lose its its ability to be a builder and a manufacturer.

00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:48.559
How uh a lot of manufacturing moved out of North America and you know we talk about like you know um uh digressing in politics and stuff like that but a lot of the a lot of the politics about like you know bringing Mac manufacturing to to to US to Canada Canada is also like you know working majorly to have a local locally done manufacturing right you know let that be building materials let that be like you know prefab more volumetric so I think my my genuine thing is that if you won't gonna solve it someone else will solve it and they're gonna eat the lunch.

00:30:48.559 --> 00:35:19.840
So get to it work together right if if if the Ford if like GM can be built in North America America right specifically to state I think this presents a tremendous opportunity for us to really build really amazing solutions which are North American made and cater to basically our own like you know uh uh like you know uh population so I think um there's that there is that now last thing I would say that when it comes to changing status quo uh we also have to think that like you know um technology and AI is one of the biggest transformational uh things which has came up in the last 10 10 like 15 15 you said 20 years internet came in changed the world and now AI is on its purge right you know I really think that industry has to look at it how it designs how it optimizes the floor how it communicates with the stakeholders right you know and I think that's where the opportunity for improvement is right because that's where the robotics will lead us right um we talk about a lot of markets don't have the right labor right there's a genuine shortage of labor or um uh if the labor is unsustainable I mean I'll talk about it a Canadian government has recently announced like you know they want to build an Arctic infrastructure right you know they're gonna build a new base uh they'll have multiple like you know uh uh like you know infrastructure like you know they really want to put it out there now imagine you're gonna fly three four five thousand people in middle of nowhere right you know in Antarctic and so that's where I think robotics can come in that's when AI can come in which can converge and we have already started to see factories implementing robotics right you know um and that's where I think genuinely believe that uh the the the the intersection of really we are at solving this problem at a scalable level and it could be the hybrid approach uh right I think uh sometimes to disrupt status quo it's not that you basically like you know uh change like you know flip the whole script right you know I think it's a one degree of change why don't we think like this if builders are building in site build right okay instead of doing everything on site now they're using panelized approach I think that itself if the industry moves from site to panelized that's a huge win right because now uh you kind of got closer to the end you end goal right and then eventually you get to like you know more complete prefab uh like you know I think one of the biggest things is that uh in in in in Canada and most of states as well we don't send the wall uh systems like you know interior finished right you know uh it cracks it has other challenges right you know so those are the opportunities right you know whoever solves those things will genuinely uh right like can bring a uh solution to the market which is scalable right uh so I think um I like like I think using new techniques using AI using technology right you know these are some of the tools which can really which can really help us solve these problems and take a product to the market with market genuinely gets excited about right I think that's what also prefab um uh we have we are I'm a big believer about design right I think you're being an architect background I always say that uh uh don't just keep building trailer like you know I mean we can be so creative with the design why aren't we not telling that story to the public right we can build we can build pretty cool things right you know okay uh not with a crazy cost right you know keeping the cost side low but we can build some some interesting designs out there and I think that's what and design is not just from exterior it's like just a whole inside functionality side right uh how does the flow works right you know and then uh and I think you you said commentary right you know how schools used to be like you know uh kids felt like they're sitting in a trailer it's now today uh if there's a lot of schools which are getting built modular you cannot see the difference if it's modular with side build because they're built with an intention if you're built with the right intention that I don't want to create just like a trailer for someone to crash up there a construction worker.

00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.199
For them that's how prefab and modular was born as well.

00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:23.760
Right?

00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:31.840
So I think it also our roots are also a problem because we go back to those roots and say, hey, this is what we are known for.

00:35:31.840 --> 00:36:06.000
But yes, I mean this is how we got started but the future is so bright we can build uh like you know we talk about when Canada allowed uh in mass timber they recently announced to add more flow so I think um we can genuinely build uh bigger uh better infrastructure with better designs uh and then and we're getting there right you know uh it's just that sometimes I feel the way a little bit slow but I think that's how our that's how entrepreneurs feel as well that you know we want to solve this problem today or tomorrow.

00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:07.280
Yeah.

00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:44.639
Well I mean it is to be fair it is taking us a long time to get the acceptance and keep talking about mindset because it is so important with this but I think you said something important like the reality is I guess I'm not a fan of the word disruption because I think a lot of people hear it as this is going to take more work and energy than I normally have to where you know that status quo and that thing that I've always known you know your brain sits into a couple different systems and that one is the one that moves fast.

00:36:44.639 --> 00:37:59.039
So you used the other word which was opportunity and it's hey you can if you want control you can make the choice to say that this has gotten me to this point but in order to not be completely upended by someone else's decision I can become an active participant in relearning not not falling into the trap of um the curse of knowledge like the curse of knowledge is like I've always known this so therefore you walk in a room and think everybody knows it or whatever and that's it's just you know it's too valuable to let go into that area of curiosity of saying okay this is this is new I've never delivered in this methodology before um relearning about ourselves and that perception that we've had of what the word modular means versus kit apart all the way through modular as you're saying that like there's so many options with that kit of parts to assemblies to panelize to um other types of solutions.

00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:21.760
My personal feeling is the answer is every project's different just as it's always been but you need to change how you're asking that question at the beginning of how can I build this and exploring those areas of opportunity to pull prefab in like you're saying to advance some of those um some of those solutions.

00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:41.920
You've also alluded to and I know this is a challenge I walked into a factory well I think it was like 2019 or whatever and the first thing I noticed was a folder with handwritten notes sitting on the side and I was like well what is that for and that's how we document how it's going through the factory and I was like yeah that doesn't work for me.

00:38:41.920 --> 00:39:06.880
So there is this gap getting factories up to how much automation should it take, how standardized designs um should it take so how our minds work but also that factory piece because people have the perception of the trailer um past and what they've always seen.

00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:33.199
And then over here on the other side they have stories of Katara and why why do more factories struggle and you know we we know this too there's a cash flow challenge not only for traditional build but there are cash flow challenges for factories and because it takes a different approach in how that cash is going to move through through the project.

00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:41.760
You also alluded to technology gives more clarity to those who can't be in the factory to see how things are progressing.

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:57.360
So I know there's a lot of those tools that are out there you know I guess that leads me to this question then is and I think you started to address this too of like you see an opportunity.

00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:21.920
You're looking at it from the outside you're saying I see these barriers I know maybe we're moving slow but um it's too important to not address and you said before hey if we don't address it someone else will so beyond that someone else even addressing it like what is it costing us right now by not having either party really addressing it?

00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:26.639
Like what do you what do you see as someone from that outside of what it is costing us?

00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.320
What's it costing us right?

00:40:28.320 --> 00:41:46.320
I think that's a great example we go back to uh Ryan uh uh vacuums existed vacuums have existed for for like you know years right you know decades I would say right but interesting thing has happened right you know when the Dyson came and they looked at vacuums and really changed the design and functionality and created a multi-billion dollar company out of it I think that's how the industry has to think I'm not saying that what's that whatever they're doing it's working but it's working at this level why don't build a product which takes it here so when you talk about like you know uh opportunity and that's what I think the traditional industry we have to think like this that can we build a better product out there for our clients right right uh because generally industry says that why like you know why no one is like you know why we are unable to scale right you know but I think let's reverse that approach and take a product first approach right a lot of technology companies do that right you know let's just build something that people just use they cannot live without right so I think Dyson did that to vacuums that really like you know changed the way vacuums were seen and people paid like three times the price for that vacuum for Dyson.

00:41:46.320 --> 00:43:29.599
So I think uh so that is that opportunity but okay because often industry thinks that you know what well we're gonna improve the product it's cost prohibitive I get it it's cost prohibitive so why don't we build a better product which industry with market genuinely pays for right you know um now on the flip side of it too like you know when we talk about like you know problem solving as you talk as you like uh technology is the piece uh like you know AI is the piece but I will also go back and I would say that how we address our stakeholders right you know right because I think they are the people who will like if Sally buys a home from modular home and she has an excellent experience she will go and tell 10 people out there right so I think we really have to talk to stakeholders not just B2C B2B side as well like you know B2B uh side oil and gas companies mining companies right you know so I think we really need to address our stakeholders and what you said is that's where the opportunity is that um how we communicate with like how in like industry communicates with the external stakeholders right you know who who are also an important part of solving this big problem and like you know creating this opportunity right you know so right yeah I mean I think you know I think the vacuum discussion is a is an important one because it makes us sort of reframe and I know productization has been a big talk right like with industrialized construction and this convergence that's happening we've you know we've been talking about how can we get the solutions for construction to get through a factory right from design and through factory.

00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:45.519
So we talk about direct you know digital manufacturing or design for fabrication design for manufacturing as well so all of these things like like we've been talking about it for a long time and as as an entrepreneur you said like doesn't feel like it's moving very fast.

00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.920
For me it's interesting because you did not come from this industry.

00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:50.559
Yeah.

00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:59.599
And for you to dive into it, look at the problem and see it from a different perspective gives us that moment of pause.

00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:06.960
Where for those of us that are in it that that are comfortable, like what if we did reevaluate it?

00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:08.480
Like what would have to be different?

00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:10.800
All of those things start asking different questions.

00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:25.440
And I know that it is a very low margin business for architects, engineers, for contractors, and those new things, well, they look like risk.

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:34.480
So bringing them into a project when, as you said, the stakeholder sitting there, you want to get feedback.

00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:44.480
Well, I think a lot of the slowness happens because we try it once and it didn't go the way the traditional went the last time.

00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:49.360
So we have that data point and we go against that.

00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:53.920
Well, the reality is, is like that's not the variables aren't the same.

00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.280
So you can't look at it from that standpoint.

00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:02.960
The first time isn't the benchmark that you want your stakeholder to feel.

00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:11.679
So you're going to find in the first time that you're trying some of these things that you've got to have a stakeholder that understands that and you're communicating it.

00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:23.599
You're driving clarity through communications, like you said, where they can see what's going on under the factory floor, that communication is happening more directly between all the parties.

00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:28.960
And because where people are coming into the project is going to be different timing.

00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:31.199
It's all about clarity.

00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.599
And that clarity is communication, but it's also communication from the start.

00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:42.320
Like, hey, you have never done this before, so don't expect it to be your best try.

00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:55.599
So you have an opportunity that each of these individuals that are coming in to work alongside with you or taking on any technology, anything in this convergence of like have the empathy.

00:45:55.599 --> 00:46:14.480
And I know this again, that it is risky, feels risky, it feels new, it will feel slower than it has before because you are in a different system of your cognitive state of like, oh, I've never seen it, so I'm not sure what the next move is.

00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:17.920
Well, clarity comes with each step forward.

00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.159
It doesn't come by knowing exactly how it's going to go when you've never done that.

00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:35.519
So I, you know, when you brought up the stakeholder, I think it's just fair that individuals who are trying it for the first time, like you just, I always say it, you've you've got to be empathetic to it.

00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:39.119
Um but we are human, so we defend.

00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:43.760
We go into defensive mode of again, I'm gonna control what I'm gonna control.

00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:49.840
And by holding on to whatever you're holding on to and control, that is actually taking it off the rails.

00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:57.119
That's actually causing a lot of the friction that is happening, you know, within the project team or within the project.

00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:10.239
So there is a coaching mindset, I think, that comes along with a lot of this change that might be happening not only in the factory, but in a construction team and a design team and and for the stakeholders.

00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:16.079
So I'm appreciative that you're having these types of conversations out there.

00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:27.599
Um, I'd love to see it go faster, not only for yourself, but I think for the industry, because I think we would be able to address a lot more problems that other humans are facing.

00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:36.639
And yeah, if we want to control it, we need to get more curious and start having more conversations like you're having, right?

00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:46.000
I would always say this thing that I think we genuinely have to believe one thing that if we won't gonna improve, right, uh someone will eat your lunch.

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.760
And I think if that doesn't motivate you, uh um, and that's how the business world works.

00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:59.119
So I think uh one of the things that I always tell the tell the folks in my industry industry that we don't have to change it in one day.

00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:03.119
We have to make uh it's like you know, it's one degree change, right?

00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:10.239
You know, and over a year, if you have improved by 10%, I think Dyson took a product and improved it by 20%.

00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:19.440
Product improved the design, improved the suction power, improved like, you know, the functionality, and they became a multi-billion dollar uh like you know industry, right?

00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:20.639
They waste the game.

00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:26.639
That's how the industry has to think that like, you know, what we are here, we don't have to like completely flip this script, right?

00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:28.480
You know, but how can we get 5% better?

00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.159
How can we get 10% better?

00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:36.639
I think this just perspective of getting better and being proactive than being reactive, right?

00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:48.559
I can tell you how much how many times industry has a lessons learned and they are they talk to the whole team across the company and say, hey, this is how it's got screwed up last time.

00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:49.440
What did we learn?

00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:50.559
How can we improve it?

00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.679
Let's document it, let's better track it right, you know.

00:48:53.679 --> 00:49:03.920
Um, and I think um uh if if the whole ecosystem comes together, right, um, and really uh like de simplify it.

00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:05.119
So, what do I mean by that?

00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:11.760
I think as modular uh and prefab industry, I think we have to productize our offerings.

00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.320
We cannot just be everything for everyone.

00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:16.159
I think that's also a wrong approach.

00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:34.880
If if let's say if uh hospitals are not getting built to an extent where you can go penetrate that market, then maybe that is a far-fetched uh like an idea versus let's say homes or a simple thing is I would say that like you know, uh additional uh ADUs.

00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:45.920
ADUs is a product which is should be 100% pre-vab and modular because it just the solution uh fits the market need there, right?

00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:54.559
So I think we as an industry, we really have to also think about uh productizing ourselves and bringing a solution to the client.

00:49:54.559 --> 00:50:04.000
Because I believe, Ryan, I I have a little bit of opposite thinker there, that instead of asking customers what do you want, tell them and give them what they need, right?

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.000
That's where the mindset is right forward.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:06.880
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:13.760
Because they don't know what they want, they are confused, give them five products, like, and that's how the car companies do it, right?

00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:16.320
You know, they don't say, hey, what do you want to build?

00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:17.599
Yes, you dream car.

00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:22.880
They say, hey, I have these four models, BMW X, this thing, this thing, this thing, this thing.

00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:23.519
What do you need?

00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:27.440
And then they give them a little bit of insight updates, right?

00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:33.039
I think that's how we should uh take an approach as a modular uh builder and an ecosystem.

00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:38.639
Let's productize ourselves and let's decent like simplify our offerings, right?

00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:41.440
Let's not be everything for everyone, right?

00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:45.920
And I think this will help us get uh gain market share faster.

00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:54.880
Meanwhile, we figure out how we want to eat and go after the bigger uh like you know market segment where we are uh everything for everyone.

00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:00.719
But I think as of today, um if we basically really self-reflect, right?

00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:13.119
You know, I think self-reflection is that uh uh focus on few products and bring those products to the market uh and really help solve those problems in the marketplace.

00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:21.199
Um uh I'll give you one example is like when we talk about rural communities or Arctic Canada or even Alaska, right?

00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:38.239
I think those markets are so ready for disruption because if you give them three models, which just consumes 50% less energy, and the windows and everything has less leakages and everything, it will just sell because the energy bills are crazy.

00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:53.760
So I think productizing it around certain markets and certain problems, I genuinely that's what we at Workspace are looking at that like productizing ourselves more instead of taking this approach of saying, what do you want to offer?

00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:54.559
Right, you know.

00:51:54.559 --> 00:52:05.679
So talking about like you know productization, uh Ryan, that like I personally believe that like instead of taking an approach that what people want and going to a client and say, Whoa, what can I give it to you?

00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:09.440
I think the approach should be that you take car manufacturers' approach.

00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.760
So you have five models you offer, right?

00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:17.920
And this, this, this, this, and you offer a little bit of a customization, but you don't flip the whole floor plan on, right?

00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:24.800
You know, and that's how so productizing your offerings and then taking those products to market, right?

00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:31.280
You know, I think that should be the approach that modular industry should take instead of being everything for everyone.

00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:38.960
Uh, I think that's where the opportunity, especially because when we talk about scale, when we talk about cash flow, that's the way to solve cash flow problems.

00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:46.960
That's what that's the way to solve the scalability problems because your factory cannot just spit out 100 different variations.

00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:48.639
It just cannot, right?

00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:50.639
So I think that's also being realistic.

00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:52.639
Industry has to be realistic, right?

00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:56.239
You know, that they don't want to go to a feast and famine cycle.

00:52:56.239 --> 00:53:01.280
Uh, if they want to have a consistent cash flow, then bring consistent offerings, right?

00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:07.360
You know, and imagine like, you know, car companies doing that, like, you know, they're building a different car for everyone.

00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.639
It it just they cannot build factories that hound it, right?

00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:11.039
You know, right.

00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:22.559
So I think that's where uh our way of looking at it uh to solve a scalability problem and to go after a bigger market segment, especially housing, just focusing on the housing side too.

00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:30.000
Um, every market needs certain, you know, certain R values, certain architectural engineering requirements.

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.559
So build three, four, five products, and that's how big builders operate today, right?

00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:42.880
If you go to big builders in any subdivision, they don't tell you, hey, unless it's a custom builder, but most spec builders, they have five models.

00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:44.559
That's what they keep building it.

00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:47.679
And I think that's how the modular industry has to really think.

00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:58.320
Uh, I know they are doing it to an extent, but we often fall into the trap that we because to to duke the cash flow going, right?

00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.880
People like become people become journalists.

00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:07.920
When you become journalist, you cannot scale because your assembly line cannot spit out the same product after one another.

00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:08.719
Yeah.

00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:09.199
Yeah.

00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:14.159
I mean, it's you know, the getting into that productization, like you said.

00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:20.320
I mean, it's just designers love to have their fingerprint on things, and there is a need for that.

00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:31.440
There are there are solutions you can still do prefab with a hybrid approach with on-site labor to build, you know, unique designs that are a one-time design.

00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:38.320
And as you're saying, it's but that's not solving, you know, the housing um shortage.

00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:40.960
That's not solving, you know, the affordability crisis.

00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:44.800
That's not solving a lot of these problems that that you've been discussing.

00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:50.800
There is an opportunity that different factories are going to run slightly different.

00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:55.039
Some are going to offer their five things, like you said, from a housing.

00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:00.800
I was thinking about the builders the first time I went and looked at a at a site down in North Carolina outside of Charlotte.

00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.559
And yeah, it was pick a model.

00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:08.239
You know, I got to choose a few things if I wanted to, um, if I would have had that house built.

00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:11.440
But if I wanted the you know uniqueness, then it was customer.

00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:14.639
I needed to go find it in the supply chain.

00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:22.239
So I do think that, you know, we we tend to, it's all or nothing.

00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:38.000
And I think a lot of times there's a mis, you know, there's been some mis messaging from prefabrication companies over the years that have cost people, you know, heartburn and struggle and real money and other things that that has stuck with them.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:40.320
So they're hesitant in that area.

00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:48.480
But by pulling back and being curious, of like, hey, you can use penalized, like you said, there are kid apart solutions.

00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:56.800
There are modular things that go inside, you know, healthcare systems that the rest of the building is still, you know, not totally 100% prefab.

00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:13.360
So the idea is hybrid approaches, finding those partners, addressing your delivery model, your process, your thinking around the solutions that are available from a prefab side.

00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:28.159
But you know, you're you're addressing a lot with the modular side to get into some very critical infrastructure pieces like housing and like you said, the schools and the in the healthcare area.

00:56:28.159 --> 00:56:44.960
So my last question, Ali, then um before we wrap up is just you're a visionary from your view, you're looking out and you said, hey, if as an industry and as a world and a planet we're successful, what does that look like to you?

00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:45.920
Excellent, right?

00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:52.480
And I think uh if we all uh look beyond our own personal interest, we can solve a lot of problems, right?

00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:59.199
You know, uh I think um uh if we look beyond our own egos and personal interests.

00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:10.639
So I think uh when we uh my motto is that Ryan, uh whatever uh however we came into this world, just leave it in a better shape form and do whatever in your capacity you can, right?

00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:17.039
Uh at the same time, I think uh I find a lot of joy in creating opportunities and employment, right?

00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:23.840
You know, when you have a business which employs 100 people, you are directly and directly contributing to 100 families' income.

00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:25.519
So I think that's a great motivation.

00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:34.880
So I think uh create solutions out there uh which provide better infrastructure and better like, you know, opportunities.

00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:43.119
So I think if we just provide better infrastructure that creates more opportunities for the kids, for the families, uh, for the communities.

00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:53.519
And I think that's kind of my long-term vision is that like, you know, be a small uh contributor uh to this, like, you know, a big opportunity out there.

00:57:53.519 --> 00:58:04.880
Because if you can create better communities, uh this will this will uh turn like you know, uh excellent creators, uh like scientists, uh people, engineers out there.

00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:16.239
Because if the kids get the right environment and the right uh uh infrastructure, uh especially living in uh Canada, Northern Canada has a huge problem with housing, right?

00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:17.679
A huge problem.

00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:21.280
Uh indigenous uh uh housing is really in bad shape.

00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:26.400
Uh that impacts a lot of problems that impacts families, mental health issues, right?

00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:26.960
You know, yeah.

00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:29.039
So I think that's what motivates me.

00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:41.599
And that's I really want to like, you know, uh contribute there and um and create more opportunities in terms of in terms of uh uh money and in terms of employment for other people, right?

00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:46.480
Uh because I always say that like, you know, what you earn in this world, you leave it here.

00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:51.599
So might as well earn it and put it to good work and then leave it in a better place, right?

00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:52.000
Yeah.

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:52.880
Yeah.

00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:54.880
Well, I appreciate you sharing that.

00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:04.800
I think again it goes back to the I always say this when somebody says what success looks like, every individual ties it back to impacting other humans' lives.

00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:11.039
And that is that that keeps me passionate about doing what I'm doing, and I know that does for you.

00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:14.239
Like, otherwise, what's the purpose, right?

00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:31.360
Like, what is the purpose if what we are trying to solve isn't making a community safer, us, a community better, giving them more opportunity to be what they want, to do what they want and live with all the basic necessities we want as humans.

00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:34.880
So I appreciate you spending some time with me.

00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:37.679
So um, so someone's listening, Ollie.

00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:41.519
They're out there, you know, they they've gotten their curiosity sparked a little more.

00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:52.800
You know, what are what are some action steps and things that you think that that individual should be taking on or looking at that might be able to help them um engage a little more on relearning?

00:59:53.280 --> 01:00:01.679
I think uh I always believe that uh uh there's so much content out there, rhyme-free content out there, YouTube, uh, Netflix, podcasts, right?

01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:02.960
Podcasts like these, right?

01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:24.480
You know, uh like like like instead of consuming uh like you know, we doom scrolling and consuming like you know, mindless content, I think if we put 15, 20 minutes into learning and sparking curiosity, it doesn't matter what kind of content you consume, but you learn something every day, uh, I think it can be very impactful in their personal and professional lives.

01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:33.679
Uh so that's who I would say that because see, in in going back 30 years ago, uh we got newspaper and radio and TV had five channels.

01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:36.480
Today you have so many choices.

01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:39.119
So I think uh learning becomes easy.

01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:42.800
You want to learn something, you're motivated, you are you have an intent.

01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:48.639
Uh YouTube or podcast or online, uh AI, chat GPT, right?

01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:50.320
Even like it's a great learning tool, right?

01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:58.960
So I think uh uh but put taking out some time and dedicating towards your personal development is important, even as leaders as well, right?

01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:04.159
You know, okay, because if you don't spend time towards your own personal development, read, listen, right?

01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:06.480
You know, talk to people, be curious, right?

01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:12.239
You know, uh and I always believe that uh if anything you're curious about, reach out to people in that industry.

01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:14.800
A lot of people would love to talk to you, right?

01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:16.960
A lot of people would love to help you.

01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:19.199
Uh a lot of us don't ask.

01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:21.840
Asking never hurts, right?

01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:24.239
And it's okay to be shameless in your ask.

01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:25.039
It's okay, right?

01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:26.639
You know, what's worse you're gonna get?

01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:27.360
No, right?

01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:30.559
But it doesn't hurt to ask and say, you know what, I'm curious.

01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:34.480
Can you help me understand this process better, this system better, this industry better?

01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:36.639
How can I get started in this industry?

01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:38.159
Uh that's how I got.

01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:40.559
I I spoke to a lot of people, right?

01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:47.519
I knew a few people who were in this industry, and I learned, uh, I relearned, I I listened to them, what they were saying.

01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:50.559
Um, and uh it just it just came all together.

01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:52.400
And uh that's how workspace came together.

01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:56.880
So uh workspace modular, they can uh they can check us out there or LinkedIn.

01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:59.920
Um if they search my name, Adisalman, uh, reach out.

01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:08.000
I'll be happy to have a conversation and uh whatever domains, I can, I'm sure I can take out 15-20 minutes over a coffee and have a conversation.

01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:27.760
Uh so um, but I think be curious and always keep spending a little bit of time, even five minutes a day towards your personal development, it compounds and it helps you become a better human being and better family person, uh, and and basically overall across across all professional and personal fronts.

01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:30.639
Well, that's that's great.

01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:39.280
I think um, yeah, if you make the first choice to take back some control and and that starts, like you said, five minutes at a time.

01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:45.039
Just there is a lot of content, and it can feel like there's a tremendous amount of choices and also no choice.

01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:53.760
So, like as a human, it you know, just go into the exploration area, speak with gentlemen like Ali and others that are out there.

01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:59.840
Uh, don't look for the silver bullet, but stay curious, stay focused on educating yourself and developing.

01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:02.480
So, Ali, I really appreciate the time.

01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:03.440
Thank you so much.

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:06.239
I look forward to kind of seeing where things go for you.

01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:07.679
Thank you so much, Ryan.

01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:11.119
Really enjoyed the conversation and uh thank you to your listeners.

01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:12.559
Uh, I really appreciate that.

01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:12.960
Thank you.

01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:13.920
Yeah, thank you.

01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:22.159
So that is the episode with Ali Solman, who is the founding partner of Workspace Modular.

01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:29.199
I wanted to bring him on because I think it's fascinating that he did not come from the AEC industry.

01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:36.159
And he can look at it from a different perspective where he's saying, like, hey, I don't want to oversell.

01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:38.559
I don't want to be the answer to all things.

01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:46.159
I just want to address a lot of these areas of infrastructure that we struggle with in North America.

01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:50.000
So he sees a lot of the same challenges that we have.

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:57.679
There is a there is a labor force that can't meet demand uh to create enough supply in the housing market.

01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:10.639
There is a labor force that can't meet the demand and the process that it takes to build healthcare and to take care of building facilities for education, which is our future investment.

01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:31.280
So I think, you know, the way he is approaching it and talking about it has some uniqueness to it and different than a lot of other companies and things that I've seen out into the marketplace who the messaging seems to be more of a it's like a silver bullet.

01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:33.599
It's the only answer there is.

01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:42.400
It's it's all of these things that end up creating our in our own minds that this is disruptive.

01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:46.480
And I don't want to take this on because it's going to cost me more time.

01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:48.400
It sounds risky.

01:04:48.400 --> 01:05:09.840
When the reality is, is like you can make the choice to take some time, educate yourself on what all the different layers of prefabrication are available, and all of those areas that you can really start to address your projects differently as a designer, as a builder.

01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:16.239
And with the future workforce that's going to be coming, they may want to be building differently.

01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:24.400
So there's huge opportunity for us to relearn, to understand status quo doesn't mean it's wrong.

01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:30.239
It just means that it was probably better at a certain situation.

01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:42.719
And now that those have changed, we should be reevaluating it more constantly and not seeing it as something that we did wrong or something that we're going to lose control of.

01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:46.000
So hope you enjoyed the episode with Ali.

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:57.920
And I hope that you're able to continue to focus on those things that you see for yourself that, hey, that is a problem I really would like to get involved in trying to solve.

01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:03.760
So until next time, continue to Activate your curiosity and activate it and others.

01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:14.639
The Activating Curiosity Podcast is brought to you by Connective Consulting Group and Connective Coaching, part of the Curiosity Building Experiences.

01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:19.760
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01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:25.119
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01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:28.000
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01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:33.679
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01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:36.960
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